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Re: [m-hb] MIT Guild cancellation Fwd: Update: COVID-19 & Student Organizations



That, I guess I could get behind.

On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 5:19 PM Pi Fisher <nerd of pi gmail com> wrote:

> I think it might be good to have one person/household go each week to
> toll, but that's probably about it.
>
> On Tue, 17 Mar 2020, 17:10 Joshua Burson, <joshburson09 gmail com> wrote:
>
>> My sense was that it was...less than a request, but more than permission
>> (encouragement?).  He said something about keeping people reminded that 
>> we
>> (I think he mostly meant the church, but poss. also the bellringers)
>> exist.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 2:11 PM Bryn Reinstadler <bryn marie r gmail 
>> com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > From the CCCBR: "If you haven’t already decided to cancel ringing
>> > activities, it seems that now is the time to do so."
>> >
>> > https://cccbr.org.uk/2020/03/16/coronavirus-covid-19-update/
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 2:03 PM Joseph Gurkan <jtg5505 gmail com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Yes, gave permission.
>> > >
>> > > Regards,
>> > > Joseph Gurkan
>> > > Sent from mobile phone
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Mar 17, 2020, 2:01 PM Emily Russell <linninniach gmail com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > My impression was that Fr. Anderson gave permission for us to 
>> > > > carry
>> on
>> > > > ringing, but that it was not a "request".
>> > > >
>> > > > Emily
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 1:57 PM Joseph Gurkan <jtg5505 gmail com>
>> > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> Hey folks. I don't know if this was circulated but I wanted to 
>> > > >> pass
>> > > along
>> > > >> that I received an email from the Music Director that "Due to 
>> > > >> both
>> the
>> > > >> Bishop and Governor’s directives, all services and activities at
>> The
>> > > >> Church
>> > > >> of the Advent are officially suspended through Palm Sunday, April
>> 5,
>> > > >> 2020."
>> > > >> The situation will be evaluated at that time.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> To clarify, "activities" does not include bell ringing as Fr.
>> Anderson
>> > > >> requested we continue to ring as scheduled unless Austin decides 
>> > > >> to
>> > > close
>> > > >> the tower.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Regards,
>> > > >> Joseph Gurkan
>> > > >> Sent from mobile phone
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On Sun, Mar 15, 2020, 7:07 PM Austin Paul <austinjpaul gmail com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> > Hi all,
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > I spoke with Father Anderson today after service. He fully
>> expects
>> > an
>> > > >> edict
>> > > >> > from "On High" tomorrow cancelling all services within the
>> Diocese.
>> > He
>> > > >> did
>> > > >> > say though, that should services be cancelled and the church
>> closed,
>> > > we
>> > > >> are
>> > > >> > still welcome to come and ring should we desire. (He mentioned
>> > > thinking
>> > > >> it
>> > > >> > good for the neighbors to continue to hear the bells.)
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > With the current state of information, it is impossible to know
>> how
>> > > >> things
>> > > >> > will develop, but I'm inclined to let people continue to "vote
>> with
>> > > >> their
>> > > >> > feet" for Wednesday practice this week. I will demand that
>> everyone
>> > > wash
>> > > >> > hands before climbing up the tower, and to use hand-sanitizer
>> > > generously
>> > > >> > and switch bells very sparingly. There is an alcohol spray 
>> > > >> > bottle
>> > for
>> > > >> the
>> > > >> > ropes, but I very much doubt its efficacy.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > The decision about practice may change as new information
>> develops.
>> > My
>> > > >> own
>> > > >> > attendance is still undecided.
>> > > >> > Please wash hands frequently and thoroughly.
>> > > >> > And do stay healthy.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Best,
>> > > >> > Austin
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 7:45 PM Dale Winter <moikney gmail com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > > Hi all,
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > just to confirm the situation as I understand it.
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > I have had a note from old North confirming that they need us
>> to
>> > > >> cancel
>> > > >> > all
>> > > >> > > ringing there til at least the end of the month; this is in
>> line
>> > > with
>> > > >> > what
>> > > >> > > Ed already found.
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > I wrote Jim at the Advent on Friday but have not heard back
>> from
>> > > him.
>> > > >> As
>> > > >> > > best I can read from the advent website it seems that 
>> > > >> > > services
>> are
>> > > >> still
>> > > >> > on
>> > > >> > > there, and so I think those as wish can likely ring tomorrow.
>> If
>> > you
>> > > >> do
>> > > >> > go
>> > > >> > > in please be very sensitive to any requests from the church;
>> they
>> > > >> surely
>> > > >> > > have a lot on their minds at the moment. Please do not feel 
>> > > >> > > any
>> > > >> > obligation
>> > > >> > > to go and make up numbers.
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > Stay safe all,
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > Dale
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 6:58 PM Michael Tartell <
>> > > >> tartell g harvard edu>
>> > > >> > > wrote:
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > Hi All,
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > Greetings from St. Louis!  My plan was to mostly to stay 
>> > > >> > > > out
>> of
>> > > the
>> > > >> > > > conversation because I didn't have any specific guidance.
>> > > However,
>> > > >> > with
>> > > >> > > > all due respect to Kat's friend's extensive rope 
>> > > >> > > > knowledge, I
>> > > >> wanted to
>> > > >> > > add
>> > > >> > > > the following points:
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > >    - While technically sunlight does eventually kill 
>> > > >> > > > viruses,
>> > this
>> > > >> is
>> > > >> > not
>> > > >> > > >    useful for our purposes
>> > > >> > > >       - There's not much direct sunlight in the ringing 
>> > > >> > > > room,
>> > and
>> > > >> > limited
>> > > >> > > >       reflected light won't have enough UV to be useful
>> > > >> > > >          - If you don't get a sunburn while ringing, 
>> > > >> > > > chances
>> are
>> > > >> > viruses
>> > > >> > > >          will be unharmed
>> > > >> > > >       - Direct sunlight won't help that much if someone
>> touches
>> > it
>> > > >> > after
>> > > >> > > >       only a few minutes
>> > > >> > > >       - Alcohol-based disinfectants will work way better 
>> > > >> > > > than
>> > > >> sunlight
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > >    - Retrospective studies have shown that transmission of
>> > viruses
>> > > >> on
>> > > >> > > >    surfaces did play a role in the first SARS outbreak
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > >    - Although the CDC guidance does state that 
>> > > >> > > > "transmission
>> > > >> [...]from
>> > > >> > > >    surfaces contaminated with the virus has not been
>> > documented,"
>> > > it
>> > > >> > > > states in
>> > > >> > > >    the same paragraph "Cleaning of visibly dirty surfaces
>> > followed
>> > > >> by
>> > > >> > > >    disinfection is a best practice measure for prevention 
>> > > >> > > > of
>> > > >> > COVID-19..."
>> > > >> > > >       - I suspect the standard for "documented" cases of
>> > > >> transmission
>> > > >> > on
>> > > >> > > >       virus from surfaces is impractically high, and we 
>> > > >> > > > won't
>> > know
>> > > >> > > > this for sure
>> > > >> > > >       until well after the outbreak
>> > > >> > > >       - It's hard to differentiate surface transmission 
>> > > >> > > > from
>> > > >> aerosol or
>> > > >> > > >       contact transmission
>> > > >> > > >       -
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/cleaning-disinfection.html
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > From a practical standpoint, if someone is sick with no
>> symptoms
>> > > at
>> > > >> > > > practice, you could potentially become infected through
>> multiple
>> > > >> > routes,
>> > > >> > > > one of which would be touching ropes.  Others would be
>> aerosols
>> > > (the
>> > > >> > > virus
>> > > >> > > > is stable for at least 3 hours as an aerosol).  If cleaning
>> > ropes
>> > > is
>> > > >> > > > impractical, not touching your face, covering your cough, 
>> > > >> > > > and
>> > > >> frequent
>> > > >> > > use
>> > > >> > > > of handwashing and sanitizer would probably be sufficient.
>> > > There's
>> > > >> > good
>> > > >> > > > evidence that both handwashing and alcohol-based sanitizers
>> are
>> > > >> > > effective.
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > My initial thought was that if we were concerned about
>> ropes, we
>> > > >> could
>> > > >> > > > spray them with rubbing alcohol (70% ethanol or 
>> > > >> > > > isopropanol)
>> > from
>> > > a
>> > > >> > spray
>> > > >> > > > bottle, then give them a wipe with a paper towel.  That 
>> > > >> > > > would
>> > > allow
>> > > >> the
>> > > >> > > > ethanol to penetrate into the wool to a similar extent as 
>> > > >> > > > our
>> > > hands,
>> > > >> > and
>> > > >> > > > since it evaporates quickly, I would hope it wouldn't 
>> > > >> > > > damage
>> the
>> > > >> ropes
>> > > >> > a
>> > > >> > > > lot and/or make them soapy while ringing.  However, I have 
>> > > >> > > > no
>> > idea
>> > > >> what
>> > > >> > > the
>> > > >> > > > medium/long-term effect of alcohols would be on rope or 
>> > > >> > > > wool.
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > I suspect Old North cancelling everything has been this 
>> > > >> > > > whole
>> > > thing
>> > > >> > > > redundant, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents anyway.  Best 
>> > > >> > > > of
>> > luck
>> > > to
>> > > >> > all
>> > > >> > > of
>> > > >> > > > you!
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > -Michael Tartell
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > <
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > Virus-free.
>> > > >> > > > www.avast.com
>> > > >> > > > <
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 6:30 PM Richard Morse via
>> > > >> > Boston-change-ringers <
>> > > >> > > > boston-change-ringers cosmos phy tufts edu> wrote:
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > > Hi! Many thanks for asking about ropes — I think that
>> > sanitizer,
>> > > >> and
>> > > >> > > > > washing hands, once Old North is back open, will have to
>> > > suffice.
>> > > >> > (The
>> > > >> > > > > advice about a bend is probably not useful, as it would
>> also
>> > > imply
>> > > >> > > > removing
>> > > >> > > > > the tails currently there, which I am loathe to do…)
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > I also, sadly, agree that days when we can’t eat on the
>> > Greenway
>> > > >> are
>> > > >> > > > > probably not best served by eating in the Market instead.
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > Thanks,
>> > > >> > > > > Ricky
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > On Mar 13, 2020, at 12:46 PM, Katarina Whimsy <
>> > > >> > kdsorceress gmail com
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > > wrote:
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > I talked to a friend of mine who knows a lot about 
>> > > >> > > > > > ropes
>> > > >> --here's
>> > > >> > his
>> > > >> > > > > > input:
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > *"Linen is less structurally sturdy when wet, and can 
>> > > >> > > > > > be
>> > > damaged
>> > > >> > when
>> > > >> > > > > > drying if overstretched or not stretched enough." (I
>> think
>> > > this
>> > > >> was
>> > > >> > > him
>> > > >> > > > > > assuming we were able to fully wash the rope, I 
>> > > >> > > > > > clarified
>> > > about
>> > > >> > bell
>> > > >> > > > > towers)
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > *"The best way to kill any viral or bacterial infection
>> is
>> > to
>> > > >> leave
>> > > >> > > it
>> > > >> > > > to
>> > > >> > > > > > sit in the sun for a few days. That knowledge isn't
>> Covid-19
>> > > >> > > specific"
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > *"How heavy is the bell? If it's under 900lbs, then you
>> > attach
>> > > >> > fresh
>> > > >> > > > rope
>> > > >> > > > > > with a bend and avoid the whole issue between weeks" (A
>> bend
>> > > is
>> > > >> a
>> > > >> > > knot
>> > > >> > > > > that
>> > > >> > > > > > joins two ropes)
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > *If it's just the covid-19 you're worried about, then
>> it's
>> > > >> really
>> > > >> > > > > overkill.
>> > > >> > > > > > Just make sure every person washes their hands with 
>> > > >> > > > > > soap
>> for
>> > > 20
>> > > >> > > second.
>> > > >> > > > > > Make it part of the ritual of bellringing"
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > *He dug up the CDC website which suggests covid-19
>> spread is
>> > > >> *not*
>> > > >> > > > mainly
>> > > >> > > > > > through contaminated surfaces/objects.
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > So I'm feeling reasonably confident about the "wash 
>> > > >> > > > > > hands
>> > > >> > thoroughly
>> > > >> > > > upon
>> > > >> > > > > > tower arrival, don't touch face in tower, maybe spray
>> rope
>> > > >> surfaces
>> > > >> > > > with
>> > > >> > > > > a
>> > > >> > > > > > little disinfectant in between" plan.
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > ***
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > Something that hasn't come up and I think should be
>> > mentioned
>> > > >> --I
>> > > >> > > don't
>> > > >> > > > > > think it's a good idea for us all to do lunch 
>> > > >> > > > > > afterwards
>> in
>> > > the
>> > > >> > > public
>> > > >> > > > > > market. It's not very good for distances (so crowded,
>> > > especially
>> > > >> > when
>> > > >> > > > we
>> > > >> > > > > > have many of us around a single table) and I don't 
>> > > >> > > > > > think
>> > > >> spending
>> > > >> > > time
>> > > >> > > > in
>> > > >> > > > > > an enclosed environment that sees a LOT of tourists and
>> > > >> travellers
>> > > >> > > from
>> > > >> > > > > all
>> > > >> > > > > > over.
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > My plan/hope tomorrow is to come in either
>> > > >> T-with-cleaning-wipes or
>> > > >> > > > bike,
>> > > >> > > > > > and to pack my own lunch. I'd love to hear other 
>> > > >> > > > > > people's
>> > > >> thoughts
>> > > >> > on
>> > > >> > > > the
>> > > >> > > > > > same.
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > ~Kat
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 12:31 PM Danielle Morse <
>> > > >> > > dmorsebell gmail com>
>> > > >> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > >> Michael was talking about something like this, though 
>> > > >> > > > > >> he
>> > > still
>> > > >> > > thought
>> > > >> > > > > the
>> > > >> > > > > >> alcohol wouldn't get enough into the ropes/sallies to
>> > > properly
>> > > >> > > > > disinfect.
>> > > >> > > > > >> At least that's what I understood.
>> > > >> > > > > >> I have some rubbing alcohol at home, I'll try to bring
>> it
>> > in
>> > > on
>> > > >> > > > Sunday.
>> > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > >> On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 12:22 PM Gregory Russell <
>> > > >> > > gfr10598 gmail com>
>> > > >> > > > > >> wrote:
>> > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > >>> How about alcohol in a spray bottle, to spray on the
>> ropes
>> > > and
>> > > >> > > > sallies.
>> > > >> > > > > >> It
>> > > >> > > > > >>> would disinfect and improve grip, and should be safe
>> for
>> > the
>> > > >> > ropes,
>> > > >> > > > > (but
>> > > >> > > > > >>> don't spray in people's faces).
>> > > >> > > > > >>>
>> > > >> > > > > >>> On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 10:01 AM <lauradi rcn com>
>> wrote:
>> > > >> > > > > >>>
>> > > >> > > > > >>>>
>> > > >> > > > > >>>>      I reached out to the change-ringers list about
>> > > >> sanitizing
>> > > >> > > > ropes.
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> The general agreement is that one can't sensibly do
>> it,
>> > but
>> > > >> an
>> > > >> > > > > >>> interesting
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> fact I was given is that the virus can live less 
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> than
>> > three
>> > > >> days
>> > > >> > > on
>> > > >> > > > a
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> fabric surface, which I guess would include linen or
>> > wool.
>> > > So
>> > > >> > from
>> > > >> > > > > >>> service
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> ringing to the next practice session, maybe the 
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> ropes
>> > will
>> > > >> > > > > >> self-sanitize?
>> > > >> > > > > >>>>     Everyone suggested
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> hand hygiene, someone else mentioned my idea of
>> sticking
>> > to
>> > > >> one
>> > > >> > > rope
>> > > >> > > > > >> per
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> person.  I have decided to severely cut back my T
>> usage ,
>> > > so
>> > > >> I
>> > > >> > > won't
>> > > >> > > > > be
>> > > >> > > > > >>> at
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> practice, but would suggest that someone clean the
>> tower
>> > > >> > doorknobs
>> > > >> > > > and
>> > > >> > > > > >>> the
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> handrails at Old North after the 11 AM tour . (Dale 
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> -
>> are
>> > > >> they
>> > > >> > > still
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> running tours?) and that everybody do the full hand
>> wash
>> > > >> before
>> > > >> > > > > heading
>> > > >> > > > > >>> up
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> to the ringing room.  I left a new roll of paper
>> towels
>> > on
>> > > >> the
>> > > >> > > shelf
>> > > >> > > > > >>> above
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> the toilet last week.  Each person should dry with a
>> > fresh
>> > > >> paper
>> > > >> > > > towel
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> instead of everybody sharing the same cloth hand 
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> towel
>> > (or
>> > > >> using
>> > > >> > > > one's
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> clothing).  I also put a new box of tissues in the 
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> ON
>> > > ringing
>> > > >> > > room,
>> > > >> > > > > and
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> would hope that people would sanitize after tissue
>> use or
>> > > >> > > > inadvertent
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> face-touching. And stop sticking fingers in the
>> > > Cornhusker's
>> > > >> > > bottle
>> > > >> > > > (
>> > > >> > > > > I
>> > > >> > > > > >>> may
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> be the only one who does that ).
>> > > >> > > > > >>>>
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> Laura Dickerson
>> > > >> > > > > >>>>
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> PS as a contribution to the popular list of songs to
>> sing
>> > > >> while
>> > > >> > > > > >> washing,
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> it seems that from rounds to back rounds is about 
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> the
>> > right
>> > > >> > > duration
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxcyXE0TIBQ
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> although my favorite currently is Gloria Gaynor
>> singing I
>> > > >> will
>> > > >> > > > survive
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> while washing
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvqP5NRXf8g
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> -------------- next part --------------
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> URL: <
>> > > >> > > > > >>>>
>> > > >> > > > > >>>
>> > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> http://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mhonarc/boston-change-ringers/attachments/20200313/6a6aee11/attachment.htm
>> > > >> > > > > >>>>>
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> _______________________________________________
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> Boston-change-ringers mailing list
>> > > >> > > > > >>>> Boston-change-ringers cosmos phy tufts edu
>> > > >> > > > > >>>>
>> > > >> > >
>> > https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/boston-change-ringers
>> > > >> > > > > >>>>
>> > > >> > > > > >>> -------------- next part --------------
>> > > >> > > > > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>> > > >> > > > > >>>
>> > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> http://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mhonarc/boston-change-ringers/attachments/20200313/fb00fd7e/attachment.htm
>> > > >> > > > > >>>>
>> > > >> > > > > >>> _______________________________________________
>> > > >> > > > > >>> Boston-change-ringers mailing list
>> > > >> > > > > >>> Boston-change-ringers cosmos phy tufts edu
>> > > >> > > > > >>>
>> > > >> > >
>> > https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/boston-change-ringers
>> > > >> > > > > >>>
>> > > >> > > > > >> -------------- next part --------------
>> > > >> > > > > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> > > >> > > > > >> URL: <
>> > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> http://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mhonarc/boston-change-ringers/attachments/20200313/50be485a/attachment.htm
>> > > >> > > > > >>>
>> > > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________
>> > > >> > > > > >> Boston-change-ringers mailing list
>> > > >> > > > > >> Boston-change-ringers cosmos phy tufts edu
>> > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> >
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