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Re: (ET) E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit
Some thoughts on batteries.
Sam’s club has Duracell gc2 for $89 plus core charge. A little higher at
Batteries plus bulbs.
I have been watching lithium batteries on Ebay and Amazon. The two things
I keep watching other than price:
1. Do they have the battery management set up to allow for 200-300 amps
for short periods. The cheaper units have low maximum amps. I don’t
think 100 amps would work for anyone with hilly terrain.
2. Safety. I worry about the safety of lithium and the potential for fire.
Does anyone have any thoughts about these factors?
Rob
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 9, 2021, at 12:40 AM, John Hosken (USA) <john hosken usa net>
> wrote:
> Thank you all for the thoughtful and detailed responses. Now I have a
> lot of
> studying to do.
> I even got a phone call from Travis who suggested I take a step back and
> re-examine my initial assumptions. I do this on every project at work,
> so it
> was easy. Since the batteries in the tractor were "previously frozen"
> when I
> first got it, they probably did not give the original controller a good
> test. He recommended installing new batteries and trying to resurrect the
> original setup. Which leads me to my next question: I switched to AGM
> batteries (and will never go back) for everything sometime between going
> to
> CFL's (1990?) and then replacing them all with LED's (2010).
> Unfortunately,
> lead is going up in price faster than lithium is going down. My local
> lead-acid store says the cheapest flooded are $125 * 6 = $750. AGM's are
> up
> to $275 * 6 = $1650. Somebody in Chattanooga is selling 12.8v 100ah
> Group-31-size LiFePO4's on ebay for $283 * 3 = $850 when you buy three at
> once. How could that be? I assume 100ah will mow a pretty big lawn. None
> of
> the lithium battery posts I have seen mentioned the ah rating of the
> batteries they used. Battman says his E-20 uses about 1ah/minute. Has
> anyone
> tried this?
> John
> P.S: IMO a tested kit that saves time is usually worth the money.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: elec-trak-request cosmos phy tufts edu
> <elec-trak-request cosmos phy tufts edu>
> Sent: Friday, November 5, 2021 10:43 PM
> To: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> Subject: Elec-trak Digest, Vol 19, Issue 104
>
> Send Elec-trak mailing list submissions to
> elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Elec-trak Digest, Vol 19, Issue 103 (Robert Troll)
> 2. Re: E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit (Chad Bush)
> 3. Re: E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit (EVDL Administrator)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 00:38:11 +0000
> From: Robert Troll <roberttroll hotmail com>
> To: "elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu" <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> Subject: Re: (ET) Elec-trak Digest, Vol 19, Issue 103
> Message-ID:
>
> <MN2PR16MB3135D344280E02C663472FCEBA8F9 MN2PR16MB3135 namprd16
> prod.outlook.
> com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I have also done several Curtis conversations. Pretty easy if you don't
> want field weakening. Little harder if you do. A 4qd should work just
> fine
> as well.
>
> Powered by Cricket Wireless
> Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
> ________________________________
> From: elec-trak-request cosmos phy tufts edu
> <elec-trak-request cosmos phy tufts edu>
> Sent: Friday, November 5, 2021 8:35:03 PM
> To: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> Subject: Elec-trak Digest, Vol 19, Issue 103
>
> Send Elec-trak mailing list submissions to
> elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Front tires / rims (Paul Anderegg)
> 2. E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit (John Hosken (USA))
> 3. Re: E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit (David Roden)
> 4. Re: E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit (jlantonucci)
> 5. Re: E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit (Steve Gaarder)
> 6. Re: E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit (Rob Brockway)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 11:14:18 -0500
> From: Paul Anderegg <tpa2008 gmail com>
> To: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> Subject: (ET) Front tires / rims
> Message-ID:
> <CAC=CQ4eFs6+P14QrAG=ixpNzvTR7aFF3pwth-wPunYFqPozjkA mail gmail
> com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi all,
>
> Does anyone have or know any leads for the wide front tires and rims?
> Please contact me offline if you have any information.
>
> T. Paul
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 13:01:36 -0400
> From: "John Hosken \(USA\)" <john hosken usa net>
> To: <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> Subject: (ET) E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit
> Message-ID: <000a01d7d266$cb4d31d0$61e79570$@usa.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Greetings Trakkers,
>
> After fifteen years, my E-20 floated to the top of the list. Varmints ate
> the wiring before I got it. The batteries were used as cores for another
> project. A box of NOS parts got stashed ten years ago.
>
> I am starting to research possibilities, but leads so far have been dead
> ends. https://freerangeelectric.com/ doesn't answer their phone or email.
> Clean Power Supply doesn't sell kits. Another email I found on the forum
> is
> unreachable. A local Elec-Trak expert recommended by my favorite Cub
> Cadet
> person doesn't return calls. The Elec-Trak Owners Club stopped sending me
> birthday messages nine years ago. Most of the posts I read lately are
> ancient. AllTrax won't sell direct and sent me back to Electric Tractor
> Store. EV Album has a bunch of addresses I haven't tried yet, though.
>
> Help!
>
> John
>
> Eight five seven - two three four - five seven eight nine
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 17:01:20 -0400
> From: "David Roden" <etpost drmm net>
> To: <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>, "John Hosken \UUSA\""
> <john hosken usa net>
> Subject: Re: (ET) E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit
> Message-ID: <61856360 20226 4D1B8356 etpost drmm net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Hi John,
>
> The Electric Tractor Store seems to be a very part-time activity for Jim.
> Keep trying and eventually he'll respond. It may take days or weeks.
>
> Jim offers a GE controller. IIRC it's a bit on the pricey side but
> looks to
> be a solid choice. I don't know of anything other than Jim's package
> that's
> closer to being an actual ET controller kit.
>
> Other controllers will probably be cheaper, but will require some
> moderately
> significant electrical / electronic chops to adapt and install.
>
> Alltrax once made a controller designed for the ET. It worked very well.
> They discontinued it in 2018 when they redesigned their controller range.
> They hadn't sold enough of the first model to make a new one worthwhile.
> If
> memory serves, the only reason that they ever made an ET model at all was
> that at the time they had an engineer on the staff who owned an ET.
>
> Several people here have used Curtis golf car controllers, apparently
> with
> success. Some electrical design work is required.
>
> Probably an Alltrax could also be used.
>
> Any series motor controller is a bit iffy with an ET motor. The ET motor
> inductance is lower than a series motor controller usually expects, so
> the
> controller's current limit may not be able to react fast enough. If you
> use
> a series motor golf car controller I recommend getting the highest
> current
> capacity that you can afford.
>
> 4QD controllers from the UK are harder to come by than Curtis or even
> Alltrax, but I think might be a better choice. they're meant for PM
> motors
> but should work fine on an ET sepex motor if you rig up field control.
> Some 4QD models have brake release outputs that can be used to operate a
> field relay.
>
> I may have a slightly used older 4QD with brake output for sale soon.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to the "etpost" address will not reach me. To send me a
> private message, please use the address shown at the bottom of this page
> :
> http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = =
> = = = = = = = =
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 17:20:09 -0400
> From: jlantonucci <jlantonucci comcast net>
> To: elec-trak <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>, "John Hosken (USA)"
> <john hosken usa net>
> Subject: Re: (ET) E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit
> Message-ID: <97cdca68-fc8b-4b8b-8ffd-731ca8ea564c@edison>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
> I've restored an E-20 and added Alltrax. I have the circuit diagrams.
> E-mail me off list.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> On Nov 5, 2021 at 1:14 PM, John Hosken (USA) <john hosken usa net>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Greetings Trakkers,
>>
>> After fifteen years, my E-20 floated to the top of the list. Varmints
>> ate the wiring before I got it. The batteries were used as cores for
>> another project. A box of NOS parts got stashed ten years ago.
>>
>> I am starting to research possibilities, but leads so far have been
>> dead ends. https://freerangeelectric.com/ doesn't answer their phone or
> email.
>> Clean Power Supply doesn't sell kits. Another email I found on the
>> forum is unreachable. A local Elec-Trak expert recommended by my
>> favorite Cub Cadet person doesn't return calls. The Elec-Trak Owners
>> Club stopped sending me birthday messages nine years ago. Most of the
>> posts I read lately are ancient. AllTrax won't sell direct and sent me
>> back to Electric Tractor Store. EV Album has a bunch of addresses I
> haven't tried yet, though.
>>
>> Help!
>>
>> John
>>
>> Eight five seven - two three four - five seven eight nine
>>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 17:49:33 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Steve Gaarder <gaarder ecovillage ithaca ny us>
> To: "John Hosken (USA)" <john hosken usa net>
> Cc: elec-trak <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> Subject: Re: (ET) E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit
> Message-ID: <alpine DEB 2 21 2111051748160 14899 mailtoad evi.earth>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
>
> And I have installed a 4QD in an E-15 and can help you if you choose that
> route.
>
> steve
>
> On Fri, 5 Nov 2021, jlantonucci wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I've restored an E-20 and added Alltrax. I have the circuit diagrams.
> E-mail me off list.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 5, 2021 at 1:14 PM, John Hosken (USA) <john hosken usa net>
> wrote:
>>> Greetings Trakkers,
>>> After fifteen years, my E-20 floated to the top of the list. Varmints
>>> ate the wiring before I got it. The batteries were used as cores for
>>> another project. A box of NOS parts got stashed ten years ago.
>>> I am starting to research possibilities, but leads so far have been
>>> dead ends. https://freerangeelectric.com/ doesn't answer their phone or
> email.
>>> Clean Power Supply doesn't sell kits. Another email I found on the
>>> forum is unreachable. A local Elec-Trak expert recommended by my
>>> favorite Cub Cadet person doesn't return calls. The Elec-Trak Owners
>>> Club stopped sending me birthday messages nine years ago. Most of the
>>> posts I read lately are ancient. AllTrax won't sell direct and sent
>>> me back to Electric Tractor Store. EV Album has a bunch of addresses I
> haven't tried yet, though.
>>> Help!
>>> John
>>> Eight five seven - two three four - five seven eight nine
>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>>> scrubbed...
>>> URL:
>>> <http://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mhonarc/elec-trak/attachments/20211105/d
>>> ef801e6/attachment.htm>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Elec-trak mailing list
>>> Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
>>> https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
>>
>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>> scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> <http://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mhonarc/elec-trak/attachments/20211105/c3
>> 285e2f/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________
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>> Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
>> https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 20:34:49 -0400
> From: Rob Brockway <getractor yahoo com>
> To: noaddress drmm net
> Cc: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu, john hosken usa net
> Subject: Re: (ET) E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit
> Message-ID: <2271616A-2273-4999-9BFA-56FCCB29BD4D yahoo com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Dave,
> Two questions on controllers.
>
> First how much braking can you get from regen on the 4q? Is it good
> enough
> to not use the mechanical brake?
>
> Did the altrax have regen?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rob
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 5, 2021, at 5:01 PM, David Roden <etpost drmm net> wrote:
>>
>> ?Hi John,
>>
>> The Electric Tractor Store seems to be a very part-time activity for
>> Jim.
>> Keep trying and eventually he'll respond. It may take days or weeks.
>>
>> Jim offers a GE controller. IIRC it's a bit on the pricey side but
>> looks to be a solid choice. I don't know of anything other than Jim's
>> package that's closer to being an actual ET controller kit.
>>
>> Other controllers will probably be cheaper, but will require some
>> moderately significant electrical / electronic chops to adapt and
>> install.
>>
>> Alltrax once made a controller designed for the ET. It worked very
>> well.
>> They discontinued it in 2018 when they redesigned their controller
>> range.
>> They hadn't sold enough of the first model to make a new one
>> worthwhile. If memory serves, the only reason that they ever made an
>> ET model at all was that at the time they had an engineer on the staff
>> who
> owned an ET.
>>
>> Several people here have used Curtis golf car controllers, apparently
>> with success. Some electrical design work is required.
>>
>> Probably an Alltrax could also be used.
>>
>> Any series motor controller is a bit iffy with an ET motor. The ET
>> motor inductance is lower than a series motor controller usually
>> expects, so the controller's current limit may not be able to react
>> fast enough. If you use a series motor golf car controller I
>> recommend getting the highest current capacity that you can afford.
>>
>> 4QD controllers from the UK are harder to come by than Curtis or even
>> Alltrax, but I think might be a better choice. they're meant for PM
>> motors but should work fine on an ET sepex motor if you rig up field
> control.
>> Some 4QD models have brake release outputs that can be used to operate
>> a field relay.
>>
>> I may have a slightly used older 4QD with brake output for sale soon.
>>
>>
>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>>
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> Note: mail sent to the "etpost" address will not reach me. To send me
>> a private message, please use the address shown at the bottom of this
>> page : http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elec-trak mailing list
>> Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
>> https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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>
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> ******************************************
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 20:42:42 -0400
> From: Chad Bush <bushman165s aol com>
> To: "John Hosken (USA)" <john hosken usa net>
> Cc: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> Subject: Re: (ET) E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit
> Message-ID: <1a2bb4a7-f28d-4ae4-90e9-5b838135e0a5 email android com>
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>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 22:19:21 -0400
> From: "EVDL Administrator" <evpost drmm net>
> To: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> Subject: Re: (ET) E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit
> Message-ID: <6185ADE9 2271 4E3EA9AB evpost drmm net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On 5 Nov 2021 at 20:34, Rob Brockway via Elec-trak wrote:
>
>> First how much braking can you get from regen on the 4q? Is it good
>> enough to not use the mechanical brake?
>
> If memory serves, 4QD's website used to say that with either the 2- or 4-
> quadrant controllers, you usually only needed a mechanical brake as a
> parking brake. I can't confirm that though, because (full disclosure) I
> never actually installed mine in the R36 it was meant for. I just
> tested
> it running the motor with the trans in neutral.
>
> Years ago, riding with a friend, I asked him why he hadn't fixed his
> car's
> balky windshield wipers. He replied, "When it's raining, it's too wet to
> fix 'em; and when it's not, I don't need 'em and I forget about it. So I
> just look between the raindrops."
>
> I was kind of like that with the tractors. In the summer I was using the
> mower and didn't want to take it apart to install the controller. In the
> winter I wasn't using it and had plenty of time, but then it was too darn
> cold in the garage to mess with something that wasn't essential. So I
> put
> up with the clutch.
>
>>
>> Did the altrax have regen?
>
> Mine has mild regen. The effect depends on what gear the trans is in.
> Especially in the higher gears, the tractor does speed up more going
> downhill than it did with the old GE contactors.
>
> The Alltrax also has (had) plug braking. It switches over to that when
> the
> brake switch is opened. The controller effectively shorts the armature
> and
> modulates the field current. This again is more of a mechanical brake
> supplement than a brake replacement. It definitely won't give you
> whiplash.
>
> If you're crazy enough, you can switch the tractor right from forward
> into
> reverse without stopping. Nothing gets broken. The controller brings
> the
> tractor to a stop, and then ramps up the speed in reverse. Or vice
> versa.
>
> The controller also uses plug braking to hold the tractor still when it's
> parked. This is kind of entertaining to watch. If you're on a slope,
> the
> tractor will roll a little and then just calmly, quietly stop.
>
> All in all, the Alltrax made my E15 noticeably more civilized. But I
> realize that it's not for everyone. Well, now, it's not for anyone.
> Whatever.
>
> PS - I've never actually used the Alltrax laptop config software, but I'm
> pretty sure that the plug braking current is adjustable with it. The
> regen
> might also be, but I'm less sure about that.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist
> address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> This raises a number of questions, such as "what's actually wrong
> with people?," and "is this legal in Spain?"
>
> -- Found on the net =
> = =
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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>
> End of Elec-trak Digest, Vol 19, Issue 104
> ******************************************
>
>
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