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Re: (ET) E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit
Thank you all for the thoughtful and detailed responses. Now I have a lot
of
studying to do.
I even got a phone call from Travis who suggested I take a step back and
re-examine my initial assumptions. I do this on every project at work, so
it
was easy. Since the batteries in the tractor were "previously frozen" when
I
first got it, they probably did not give the original controller a good
test. He recommended installing new batteries and trying to resurrect the
original setup. Which leads me to my next question: I switched to AGM
batteries (and will never go back) for everything sometime between going to
CFL's (1990?) and then replacing them all with LED's (2010). Unfortunately,
lead is going up in price faster than lithium is going down. My local
lead-acid store says the cheapest flooded are $125 * 6 = $750. AGM's are up
to $275 * 6 = $1650. Somebody in Chattanooga is selling 12.8v 100ah
Group-31-size LiFePO4's on ebay for $283 * 3 = $850 when you buy three at
once. How could that be? I assume 100ah will mow a pretty big lawn. None of
the lithium battery posts I have seen mentioned the ah rating of the
batteries they used. Battman says his E-20 uses about 1ah/minute. Has
anyone
tried this?
John
P.S: IMO a tested kit that saves time is usually worth the money.
-----Original Message-----
From: elec-trak-request cosmos phy tufts edu
<elec-trak-request cosmos phy tufts edu>
Sent: Friday, November 5, 2021 10:43 PM
To: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
Subject: Elec-trak Digest, Vol 19, Issue 104
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Elec-trak Digest, Vol 19, Issue 103 (Robert Troll)
2. Re: E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit (Chad Bush)
3. Re: E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit (EVDL Administrator)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 00:38:11 +0000
From: Robert Troll <roberttroll hotmail com>
To: "elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu" <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
Subject: Re: (ET) Elec-trak Digest, Vol 19, Issue 103
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prod.outlook.
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have also done several Curtis conversations. Pretty easy if you don't
want field weakening. Little harder if you do. A 4qd should work just fine
as well.
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From: elec-trak-request cosmos phy tufts edu
<elec-trak-request cosmos phy tufts edu>
Sent: Friday, November 5, 2021 8:35:03 PM
To: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
Subject: Elec-trak Digest, Vol 19, Issue 103
Send Elec-trak mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of Elec-trak digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Front tires / rims (Paul Anderegg)
2. E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit (John Hosken (USA))
3. Re: E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit (David Roden)
4. Re: E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit (jlantonucci)
5. Re: E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit (Steve Gaarder)
6. Re: E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit (Rob Brockway)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 11:14:18 -0500
From: Paul Anderegg <tpa2008 gmail com>
To: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
Subject: (ET) Front tires / rims
Message-ID:
<CAC=CQ4eFs6+P14QrAG=ixpNzvTR7aFF3pwth-wPunYFqPozjkA mail gmail
com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi all,
Does anyone have or know any leads for the wide front tires and rims?
Please contact me offline if you have any information.
T. Paul
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 13:01:36 -0400
From: "John Hosken \(USA\)" <john hosken usa net>
To: <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
Subject: (ET) E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit
Message-ID: <000a01d7d266$cb4d31d0$61e79570$@usa.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Greetings Trakkers,
After fifteen years, my E-20 floated to the top of the list. Varmints ate
the wiring before I got it. The batteries were used as cores for another
project. A box of NOS parts got stashed ten years ago.
I am starting to research possibilities, but leads so far have been dead
ends. https://freerangeelectric.com/ doesn't answer their phone or email.
Clean Power Supply doesn't sell kits. Another email I found on the forum is
unreachable. A local Elec-Trak expert recommended by my favorite Cub Cadet
person doesn't return calls. The Elec-Trak Owners Club stopped sending me
birthday messages nine years ago. Most of the posts I read lately are
ancient. AllTrax won't sell direct and sent me back to Electric Tractor
Store. EV Album has a bunch of addresses I haven't tried yet, though.
Help!
John
Eight five seven - two three four - five seven eight nine
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 17:01:20 -0400
From: "David Roden" <etpost drmm net>
To: <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>, "John Hosken \UUSA\""
<john hosken usa net>
Subject: Re: (ET) E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit
Message-ID: <61856360 20226 4D1B8356 etpost drmm net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Hi John,
The Electric Tractor Store seems to be a very part-time activity for Jim.
Keep trying and eventually he'll respond. It may take days or weeks.
Jim offers a GE controller. IIRC it's a bit on the pricey side but looks
to
be a solid choice. I don't know of anything other than Jim's package
that's
closer to being an actual ET controller kit.
Other controllers will probably be cheaper, but will require some
moderately
significant electrical / electronic chops to adapt and install.
Alltrax once made a controller designed for the ET. It worked very well.
They discontinued it in 2018 when they redesigned their controller range.
They hadn't sold enough of the first model to make a new one worthwhile. If
memory serves, the only reason that they ever made an ET model at all was
that at the time they had an engineer on the staff who owned an ET.
Several people here have used Curtis golf car controllers, apparently with
success. Some electrical design work is required.
Probably an Alltrax could also be used.
Any series motor controller is a bit iffy with an ET motor. The ET motor
inductance is lower than a series motor controller usually expects, so the
controller's current limit may not be able to react fast enough. If you
use
a series motor golf car controller I recommend getting the highest current
capacity that you can afford.
4QD controllers from the UK are harder to come by than Curtis or even
Alltrax, but I think might be a better choice. they're meant for PM motors
but should work fine on an ET sepex motor if you rig up field control.
Some 4QD models have brake release outputs that can be used to operate a
field relay.
I may have a slightly used older 4QD with brake output for sale soon.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "etpost" address will not reach me. To send me a
private message, please use the address shown at the bottom of this page :
http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 17:20:09 -0400
From: jlantonucci <jlantonucci comcast net>
To: elec-trak <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>, "John Hosken (USA)"
<john hosken usa net>
Subject: Re: (ET) E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit
Message-ID: <97cdca68-fc8b-4b8b-8ffd-731ca8ea564c@edison>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I've restored an E-20 and added Alltrax. I have the circuit diagrams.
E-mail me off list.
>
> On Nov 5, 2021 at 1:14 PM, John Hosken (USA) <john hosken usa net>
wrote:
>
>
> Greetings Trakkers,
>
> After fifteen years, my E-20 floated to the top of the list. Varmints
> ate the wiring before I got it. The batteries were used as cores for
> another project. A box of NOS parts got stashed ten years ago.
>
> I am starting to research possibilities, but leads so far have been
> dead ends. https://freerangeelectric.com/ doesn't answer their phone or
email.
> Clean Power Supply doesn't sell kits. Another email I found on the
> forum is unreachable. A local Elec-Trak expert recommended by my
> favorite Cub Cadet person doesn't return calls. The Elec-Trak Owners
> Club stopped sending me birthday messages nine years ago. Most of the
> posts I read lately are ancient. AllTrax won't sell direct and sent me
> back to Electric Tractor Store. EV Album has a bunch of addresses I
haven't tried yet, though.
>
> Help!
>
> John
>
> Eight five seven - two three four - five seven eight nine
>
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 17:49:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steve Gaarder <gaarder ecovillage ithaca ny us>
To: "John Hosken (USA)" <john hosken usa net>
Cc: elec-trak <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
Subject: Re: (ET) E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit
Message-ID: <alpine DEB 2 21 2111051748160 14899 mailtoad evi.earth>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
And I have installed a 4QD in an E-15 and can help you if you choose that
route.
steve
On Fri, 5 Nov 2021, jlantonucci wrote:
>
>
> I've restored an E-20 and added Alltrax. I have the circuit diagrams.
E-mail me off list.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> On Nov 5, 2021 at 1:14 PM, John Hosken (USA) <john hosken usa net>
wrote:
>>
>>
>> Greetings Trakkers,
>>
>> After fifteen years, my E-20 floated to the top of the list. Varmints
>> ate the wiring before I got it. The batteries were used as cores for
>> another project. A box of NOS parts got stashed ten years ago.
>>
>> I am starting to research possibilities, but leads so far have been
>> dead ends. https://freerangeelectric.com/ doesn't answer their phone or
email.
>> Clean Power Supply doesn't sell kits. Another email I found on the
>> forum is unreachable. A local Elec-Trak expert recommended by my
>> favorite Cub Cadet person doesn't return calls. The Elec-Trak Owners
>> Club stopped sending me birthday messages nine years ago. Most of the
>> posts I read lately are ancient. AllTrax won't sell direct and sent
>> me back to Electric Tractor Store. EV Album has a bunch of addresses I
haven't tried yet, though.
>>
>> Help!
>>
>> John
>>
>> Eight five seven - two three four - five seven eight nine
>>
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>> scrubbed...
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>> <http://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mhonarc/elec-trak/attachments/20211105/d
>> ef801e6/attachment.htm>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elec-trak mailing list
>> Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
>> https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
>>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 20:34:49 -0400
From: Rob Brockway <getractor yahoo com>
To: noaddress drmm net
Cc: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu, john hosken usa net
Subject: Re: (ET) E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit
Message-ID: <2271616A-2273-4999-9BFA-56FCCB29BD4D yahoo com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Dave,
Two questions on controllers.
First how much braking can you get from regen on the 4q? Is it good enough
to not use the mechanical brake?
Did the altrax have regen?
Thanks,
Rob
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 5, 2021, at 5:01 PM, David Roden <etpost drmm net> wrote:
>
> ?Hi John,
>
> The Electric Tractor Store seems to be a very part-time activity for Jim.
> Keep trying and eventually he'll respond. It may take days or weeks.
>
> Jim offers a GE controller. IIRC it's a bit on the pricey side but
> looks to be a solid choice. I don't know of anything other than Jim's
> package that's closer to being an actual ET controller kit.
>
> Other controllers will probably be cheaper, but will require some
> moderately significant electrical / electronic chops to adapt and
> install.
>
> Alltrax once made a controller designed for the ET. It worked very well.
> They discontinued it in 2018 when they redesigned their controller range.
> They hadn't sold enough of the first model to make a new one
> worthwhile. If memory serves, the only reason that they ever made an
> ET model at all was that at the time they had an engineer on the staff
> who
owned an ET.
>
> Several people here have used Curtis golf car controllers, apparently
> with success. Some electrical design work is required.
>
> Probably an Alltrax could also be used.
>
> Any series motor controller is a bit iffy with an ET motor. The ET
> motor inductance is lower than a series motor controller usually
> expects, so the controller's current limit may not be able to react
> fast enough. If you use a series motor golf car controller I
> recommend getting the highest current capacity that you can afford.
>
> 4QD controllers from the UK are harder to come by than Curtis or even
> Alltrax, but I think might be a better choice. they're meant for PM
> motors but should work fine on an ET sepex motor if you rig up field
control.
> Some 4QD models have brake release outputs that can be used to operate
> a field relay.
>
> I may have a slightly used older 4QD with brake output for sale soon.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to the "etpost" address will not reach me. To send me
> a private message, please use the address shown at the bottom of this
> page : http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elec-trak mailing list
> Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 20:42:42 -0400
From: Chad Bush <bushman165s aol com>
To: "John Hosken (USA)" <john hosken usa net>
Cc: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
Subject: Re: (ET) E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit
Message-ID: <1a2bb4a7-f28d-4ae4-90e9-5b838135e0a5 email android com>
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 22:19:21 -0400
From: "EVDL Administrator" <evpost drmm net>
To: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
Subject: Re: (ET) E-20 Rebuild w/Electronic Controller Kit
Message-ID: <6185ADE9 2271 4E3EA9AB evpost drmm net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
On 5 Nov 2021 at 20:34, Rob Brockway via Elec-trak wrote:
> First how much braking can you get from regen on the 4q? Is it good
> enough to not use the mechanical brake?
If memory serves, 4QD's website used to say that with either the 2- or 4-
quadrant controllers, you usually only needed a mechanical brake as a
parking brake. I can't confirm that though, because (full disclosure) I
never actually installed mine in the R36 it was meant for. I just tested
it running the motor with the trans in neutral.
Years ago, riding with a friend, I asked him why he hadn't fixed his car's
balky windshield wipers. He replied, "When it's raining, it's too wet to
fix 'em; and when it's not, I don't need 'em and I forget about it. So I
just look between the raindrops."
I was kind of like that with the tractors. In the summer I was using the
mower and didn't want to take it apart to install the controller. In the
winter I wasn't using it and had plenty of time, but then it was too darn
cold in the garage to mess with something that wasn't essential. So I put
up with the clutch.
>
> Did the altrax have regen?
Mine has mild regen. The effect depends on what gear the trans is in.
Especially in the higher gears, the tractor does speed up more going
downhill than it did with the old GE contactors.
The Alltrax also has (had) plug braking. It switches over to that when the
brake switch is opened. The controller effectively shorts the armature and
modulates the field current. This again is more of a mechanical brake
supplement than a brake replacement. It definitely won't give you
whiplash.
If you're crazy enough, you can switch the tractor right from forward into
reverse without stopping. Nothing gets broken. The controller brings the
tractor to a stop, and then ramps up the speed in reverse. Or vice versa.
The controller also uses plug braking to hold the tractor still when it's
parked. This is kind of entertaining to watch. If you're on a slope, the
tractor will roll a little and then just calmly, quietly stop.
All in all, the Alltrax made my E15 noticeably more civilized. But I
realize that it's not for everyone. Well, now, it's not for anyone.
Whatever.
PS - I've never actually used the Alltrax laptop config software, but I'm
pretty sure that the plug braking current is adjustable with it. The regen
might also be, but I'm less sure about that.
David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist
address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
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This raises a number of questions, such as "what's actually wrong
with people?," and "is this legal in Spain?"
-- Found on the net = =
=
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