Re: (ET) E16 drive issues.

On Oct 2, 2014, at 11:26 AM, Chad Bush via Elec-trak <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu> wrote:

I second the suggestion to replace all of the diodes and MOV on the board. Shouldn't take but 10-15 minutes with a soldering gun and a little solder. I usually cut the leads down a bit and do one at a time, making sure they are installed in the correct "polarity," cathode facing the right direction.

Also, something I stumbled on recently in the late model E15 and E16 diagram is a diode that was added in the RTN circuit to aid in seal-in of the relay coil. When I was initially checking out an E15HA, the RTN relay would chatter if the speed control was moved swiftly into higher than just the first speed. This particular diode helps control the flow of current in that circuit and maintains the coil voltage during those surges. It is documented in the last section of the HSM on the late model E15, as CR11 on page 7-12 or Figure 7-4. I had to add this diode and it cleared up the RTN problems. I would hope your E16 has it, but just in case, check it out.

Chad

-----Original Message-----
From: RJ Kanary <rjkanary consolidated net>
To: Dean Stuckmann <dstuckmann mantool com>; Elec >> et <Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
Sent: Thu, Oct 2, 2014 10:25 am
Subject: Re: (ET) E16 drive issues.

                          Were it I, replacement of all those diodes would be on the menu.It will be a bit of a pill to do,the way that assembly is constructed, but after it's done, you will probably get another 40 years of service.Replace the MOV also,since there is no practical way to determine its state of health.It is not OEM so it has been changed at least once. A weekend project that should be enjoyable.

RJ

On 10/2/2014 10:10 AM, Dean Stuckmann wrote:

Thanx a lot. So they are both the same?

Regards

Dean Stuckmann

From: "RJ Kanary" <rjkanary consolidated net>
To: "Dean Stuckmann" <dstuckmann mantool com>, "elec >> et" <Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 2, 2014 8:58:01 AM
Subject: Re: Fwd: (ET) E16 drive issues.

   Yes, that WAS a diode. <VBG>Now that the primary issue is
unveiled,a local RadioShack® should have suitable, better than OEM
replacements.Here is a link to the OEM specs.

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/76231/MICROSEMI/30S10.html

Replace both of them, of course. :)

RJ

On 10/2/2014 8:49 AM, Dean Stuckmann wrote:
> Here is a photo.
>
> Regards
>
> Dean Stuckmann
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Dean Stuckmann" <dstuck lakefield net>
> *To: *"Dean Stuckmann DStuckmann" <DStuckmann mantool com>
> *Sent: *Thursday, October 2, 2014 6:12:32 AM
> *Subject: *Fwd: (ET) E16 drive issues.
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *RJ Kanary <rjkanary consolidated net
> <mailto:rjkanary consolidated net>>
> *Subject: **Re: (ET) E16 drive issues.*
> *Date: *October 1, 2014 at 8:10:15 PM CDT
> *To: *Dean Stuckmann <dstuck lakefield net
> <mailto:dstuck lakefield net>>, "Ele >> et"
> <Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> <mailto:Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>>
>
> An image would be helpful. :) I suspect the failed
> component is one of the field diodes.
>
> RJ
>
> On 10/1/2014 9:06 PM, Dean Stuckmann wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Well its not the motor or the F relay, but I did find a
> resistor broke in half on the small square varistor card.
> Could that be it? Does anyone know the values of the
> components on that card? The one that is broke is smoked and I
> can’t see a number.
>
> Thanx for your help
> Dean
>
>
> On Sep 22, 2014, at 9:10 PM, RJ Kanary
> <rjkanary consolidated net <mailto:rjkanary consolidated net>>
> wrote:
>
> Since this is an E-16 there is no longer a
> Field Reversing relay. The only relay in the Field circuit
> on these is the Field Weakening relay. With the Armature
> reversing contactors, the Field circuit became much simpler.
>
> RJ
>
>
> On 9/22/2014 9:14 PM, CZ Unit wrote:
>
> On 9/22/2014 9:01 PM, Dean Stuckmann wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Thanx for the help.
>
> Here is some more info. I did the motor testing
> with the motor just on the ground. So there was NO
> resistance from belts or the transmission. Could
> that cause the runaway? But like I said it worked
> fine in reverse. In reverse the torque made the
> motor jump as it got up to speed almost
> immediately. In forward, the motor started at just
> a few RPM for the first few seconds but then
> started revving up to runaway after about 5 more
> seconds.
>
> The problem is there is no power to the field when in
> forward. If the E16 uses the E15 type of field control
> there is a relay that is probably welded shut in the
> reverse position. Thus when you try to go to forward
> there is no field. If it's an E20 type controller then
> there are two diodes that provide constant power to
> the field in forward and reverse. One of them blew up.
>
> The E15/20 motor is not really a shunt motor, it's a
> compound motor. There is a shunt field that supplies
> almost all the power, and a small field in series with
> the armature that acts as a compensating control,
> increasing field strength past normal full field when
> the motor is heavily loaded. With the normal field
> gone that little remaining field winding will provide
> enough to spin the motor very quickly with no load and
> not at all under any load.
>
> C
>
>
>
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