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Re: (ET) Wheelhorse and their last ET in 1983
Steve, I drive an 'all electric' plug-in (220V) 120VDC Ford Courier
pickup truck. Range is not a problem because all driving within her
range (bout 50 miles) is done in her, anything I need outside of that is
done in the gas truck. In between, for little shopping trips postoffice
etc is done even more economically with an electric commuter scooter.
Have put over 800 miles on the scooter in 2 yrs and she don't show up on
the electric bill. The truck costs about as much as an electric dryer to
run. Doing so few miles on the gasser that I get a 'low mileage per
year' discount from the auto insurance company. Most of us plug-in
electric vehicle people do the same thing, have a gasser for the 'out of
electric range' trips. Last yr only burned 3 tanks of gas in her (at
22mpg average which is good for a loaded van truck). And zero gas for
mowing the lawn and snowplowing :-)
My hopes are with yours as to Toyota. Saw an aftermarket plug-in Prius
conversion at Altwheels festival this yr. Surprised at how simple it
was.
Dave
Weymouth MA
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 19:24:11 -0500 Steve & Carol Welch
<welches dejazzd com> writes:
> Sorry, should have said that in terms of *electric-only* (no ICE at
> all), home tractors are a more logical & easier case to make than
> *electric-only* cars - there's no downside in terms of range since
> you're always at home. Hybrids are a very practical bridge step
> between ICE cars & electrics (drive a Civic hybrid myself). Been
> following the plug-in Prius with interest for some time. Hope
> Toyota
> is preparing to do this themselves rather than rely on aftermarket.
>
> Sorry for taking this thread rather off topic...
>
> Steve
>
>
> On Dec 12, 2006, at 6:37 PM, David C Robie wrote:
>
> >
> > OK STEVE !
> >
> > Except for the line 'much better than cars'. The Priii *are*
> electric
> > cars and can run without an ICE engine in em at all (but not for
> long,
> > bout 7 miles as the batts are too small for much range). Seein as
>
> > that
> > the success of the Prius proves the success and reliability of a
> major
> > manufacturers all-electric automobile chassis, the next step up is
> the
> > plug in type hybrid. Owner's choice on what fuel he is to burn on
> a
> > given day. Short trip under 30 miles? Electricity. Long trip?
> Gas.
> > It's the short trips (with a cold engine) that get the poorest
> fuel
> > mileage and beat on the engine the hardest. With the plug-in type
>
> > hybrid
> > starting to show up on the roads now (developmental, not for sale
> by
> > dealers yet) there is no gasoline fuel use at all on trips under
> 30
> > miles. If you need to go more miles that ' all electric' day, the
>
> > car's
> > computer senses 'low battery' when it happens and starts up the
> ICE
> > (which also charges the battery as you drive).
> > As for reliability of this all -electric chassis; There is
> a
> > std
> > Prius in Hingham MA with over 260,000 miles on her with no major
> > repairs
> > and with the original batteries. She still looks (and feels, I
> > regularly
> > ride in this vehicle and have driven her) new.
> > As for the tractors; Modern technology such as decent
> electronic
> > controllers, more precise motor mfg and today's better batteries
> (even
> > floodeds) should eliminate the problems GE had in pioneering these
> > machines - and the future surely will bring us decent electric
> > tractors
> > on par pricewise with hi end gassers in the mass market. Why?
> > Because
> > of 'peak oil' and air quality issues if nothing else. A good
> > sector of
> > the public has seen WKTEC and AIT and is searching for
> environmentally
> > benign answers to questions posed by these flics. This should
> make
> > a lot
> > of any new electric tractors at a comparable price to hi end
> gassers
> > 'presold' the minute they hit the market. We have the Electric OX
>
> > as the
> > high end now, all it needs is to be downsized a bit and downpriced
> by
> > mass production or possibly Chinese outsource. When something like
>
> > that
> > is able to be produced in the massive quantities reqd by Home
> Depot,
> > Lowes etc, it will be a marketing success guaranteed.
> >
> > The days of burning dead dinosaurs and their foodchains are
> > numbered. Viva
> > Reddy Kilowatt.
> >
> > Dave
> > Weymouth MA
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:05:02 -0500 Steve & Carol Welch
> > <welches dejazzd com> writes:
> >> I couldn't agree more with Jack's last sentence. You have to
> >> engineer an excellent, reliable product, while undercutting the
> "old
> >>
> >> technology" competition. The lower price entices non-zealot
> >> consumers to "give it a try". Also, as the Ford guy stated in
> the
> >> "Who Killed the Electric Car" movie, if average people perceive
> that
> >>
> >> the item you're selling has less capability than the competition,
> >> they (reasonably) expect to pay less for it.
> >>
> >> The problem is that launching new technologies like these cost
> more,
> >>
> >> not less (at least initially). It takes a company with deep
> >> pockets,
> >> good engineers & marketers, and a long-term commitment to
> succeed.
> >>
> >> Witness Toyota and the Prius, now on generation two (plus the
> Camry
> >> &
> >> Highlander & system sales to Ford) - think they've recovered
> their
> >> Hybrid Synergy Drive R&D by now?? Had GM not been so
> schizophrenic
> >>
> >> with the EV1, they might be in a much better place in terms of
> >> marketable (maybe even profitable) "green" products today.
> >>
> >> I also wonder if the ET was a victim of the well-established ICE
> >> sales & repair industry. Not necessarily by intent, but just by
> not
> >>
> >> fitting in with the usual product. Plus, no tuneups, plugs, oil,
> >> filters = less service money for the local dealer (kinda like the
> >> EV1). Maybe if a big company (Deere) made a good electric and
> sold
> >>
> >> thru Home Depot (appliance-like merchandise, no service dept to
> >> threaten) perhaps it would sell better. It would require a very
> >> intentional, determined advertising / education campaign. I
> firmly
> >>
> >> believe there is an excellent case to be made - home lawn
> tractors
> >> are an excellent use for electric technology - much better than
> >> cars. You're never more than your property line away from a
> >> recharge, plus no messy gas, oil, & noise - what's a suburbanite
> not
> >>
> >> to like?
> >>
> >> Okay, off soapbox now. Y'all in the choir can go back to
> whatever
> >> more important you were doing... ;^)
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >>
> >> On Dec 11, 2006, at 12:45 PM, John Casey wrote:
> >>
> >>> ...snip...
> >>> They did not see that selling a new concept against strong
> >>> competition almost always dictates that you must price lower to
> >>> build a
> >>> following.
> >>> Jack
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Matthew callahan" <callahanrc hotmail com>
> >>> To: <maxo iname com>; <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> >>> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 9:24 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: (ET) Wheelhorse and their last ET in 1983
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Gee, I wonder if that did have anything to do with it... <VBG>
> >>>>
> >>>> Were there other factors? High cost was probably one. How
> about
> >>> marketing,
> >>>> did wheelhorse do a good job marketing their electric tractors,
> >> or
> >>>> did
> >>> they
> >>>> pull the same thing that GM did with the EV1? Did the tractors
> >>>> have any
> >>>> safety issues, premature failures, or anything of the sort?
> >>>>
> >>>> Matt
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> From: "Max Hall" <maxmatic gmail com>
> >>>>> Reply-To: maxo iname com
> >>>>> To: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> >>>>> Subject: Re: (ET) Wheelhorse and their last ET in 1983
> >>>>> Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:06:05 -0500
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Gasoline hit its peak in '81, and plummeted almost
> >> uninterruptedly
> >>>>> through '86 to less than half the '81 peak.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't know if thast had anything at all to do with it,
> though.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Max
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 12/11/06, Matthew callahan <callahanrc hotmail com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Could any of you enlighten us with your insight on why GE
> sold
> >> the
> >>>>> original
> >>>>>> ET line, why New Idea only produced it for what? one year?,
> and
> >> why
> >>> did
> >>>>>> Wheelhorse stop making them in 1983? What were the reasons
> >> that
> >>>>> contributed
> >>>>>> to their downfall at that time?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Any historical references or articles from that time period
> >>>>>> regarding
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>> downfall of ETs would be greatly appreciated.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cheers
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Matt
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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