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Re: (ET) Re: ET new technology and abandening the ICE (Rod Hower)
I expect alltrax will stand behind their products for at least a year.
someone correct me if I'm wrong as I don't remember reading what the
warranty
is. It's been my limited experience that black boxes go south fairly
quickly
or not at all.
dave
seattle
--
Open WebMail Project (http://openwebmail.org)
---------- Original Message -----------
From: Christopher Zach <czach computer org>
To: perry suppleye com
Cc: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
Sent: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 10:49:32 -0400
Subject: Re: (ET) Re: ET new technology and abandening the ICE (Rod Hower)
> Ok. I always thought that the E20 controller could be understood by just
> about anyone. It's just a matter of having the schematic and tracing
> wires around.
>
> Will the schematic for the Alltrax be in the public domain? Or is it
> a sealed box that you simply chuck when and if it goees bad?
>
> We are a disposable society. Disposable diapers, controllers, lawn
> mowers, tractors.
>
> *sigh*
> Chris
>
> Perry Cain wrote:
>
> > For those of us who are neither purists, nor electrical engineers, it
seems
> > to me that the Alltrax is the way to go.
> > I have been reading this board for quite some time, and since I am
> > only a
> > computer programmer, I cannot understand most of what is said here. I
won't
> > be replacing any diodes, I am ordering an Alltrax!
> >
> >
> > perry suppleye com
> > Perry Cain
> > Akron OH
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: elec-trak-bounces cosmos phy tufts edu
> > [mailto:elec-trak-bounces cosmos phy tufts edu] On Behalf Of
> > elec-trak-request cosmos phy tufts edu
> > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:52 PM
> > To: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> > Subject: Elec-trak Digest, Vol 2, Issue 136
> >
> > Send Elec-trak mailing list submissions to
> > elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > elec-trak-request cosmos phy tufts edu
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > elec-trak-owner cosmos phy tufts edu
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than
> > "Re: Contents of Elec-trak digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. breadboard fixed (Chris Zach)
> > 2. Re: Rookie questions on an E20 (Chris Zach)
> > 3. Re: ET new technology and abandening the ICE (Rod Hower)
> > 4. Re: ET new technology and abandening the ICE (Chris Zach)
> > 5. Re: ET new technology and abandening the ICE (Rod Hower)
> > 6. Re: ET new technology and abandening the ICE (Chris Zach)
> > 7. Re: ET new technology and abandening the ICE (John B Reinhard)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 20:11:14 -0400
> > From: Chris Zach <czach computer org>
> > Subject: (ET) breadboard fixed
> > To: Elec-trak list <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> > Message-ID: <4071F5A2 9020104 computer org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> >
> > Ok, the breadboard is fixed. Basically what I did was replace all four
> > of
> > the diodes with good old fashioned 3amp diodes from Radio Shack. The
larger
> > diodes have a forward voltage drop of .5 volts as opposed to 1.0 volts
> > for
> > the smaller ones. So I took a drill, enlarged the holes in the PCB
slightly,
> > and soldered in the new diodes.
> >
> > Put it back in; works like a champ. As a bonus, speeds 6 and 7 now come
> > online. Now if I could just get a voltmeter that *works* and a bulb
> > for
the
> > cruise control switch I would be 100% set for the summer.
> >
> > Meantime I will put in an order for 22 ohm resistors and the other
> > oddball
> > types and replace everything in the fall.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 20:31:40 -0400
> > From: Chris Zach <czach computer org>
> > Subject: Re: (ET) Rookie questions on an E20
> > To: Steve George <steve george comdev ca>, Elec-trak list
> > <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> > Message-ID: <4071FA6C 9020908 computer org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> >
> >
> >>1. Should anything happen when I turn on the key? - i.e should any of
> >>the relays click? Should the gauges show the charge state?
> >
> >
> > Yup. When you power the key, relays 1 and two should click in. It's a
> > soft
> > sound, but is there. If you open the top of the relay panel you should
> > see
> > them move.
> >
> >
> >>2. I've found the seat and brake safety switches - are there any more?
> >
> > Nope. If they are set (sitting in seat, brake on) then power is
> > applied to
> > the two relays and the contactor bus is active and ready to shoot.
> >
> > Assuming of course the disconnect is in.
> >
> >
> >>3. When I press in the 'Disconnect switch' The gauges do show the
> >>charge state and resistor elements get hot (nothing connected to the
> >>PTO). Is this normal? Should the PTO contactor click?
> >
> >
> > Nope. The motor should *not* be on unless the pedal is down. And the
> > big
> > front resistors should not get warm. Stop what you are doing, pop the
panel
> > under the steering wheel and check your contactors; one is probably
> > stuck
in
> > the on position. tap lightly with a hammer to see if they loosen up.
> >
> >
> >>4. When I attempt to charge - with the disconnect out nothing happens
> >>(except the transformer hums). with the disconnect in the resistors
> >>get hot as before. Is this correct? (I can't see any change in battery
> >>voltage but also can't believe the resistors should get hot during
> >
> > charging).
> >
> > Once again, contactor is stuck.
> >
> >
> >>5. Does anyone have a circuit diagram for the E20?
> >
> >
> > Bill Gunn has the manual. Get it. It is without a doubt the best
> > resource;
> > it has *EVERY* schematic and trouble tree.
> >
> > it will tell you everything.
> >
> >
> >>6. I assume the large contactors are part of the motor speed control
> >>system, but what is the function of the relays at the top of the plate
> >>(behind the switches)?
> >
> >
> > The relays control the response of the contactors to the various
interlocks.
> > Seat, brake, switch, etc. One relay controls the lock-in of the field
> > weakening circuit, another controls reverse, and another controls the
cruise
> > control system.
> >
> >
> >
> >>7. How does the cruise control system work? - is this the function of
> >>the PCB's and components.
> >
> >
> > naah, it's as dumb as a box of hammers. Just holds in the 4th speed
> > contactor (full power, full field) bypassing the throttle switches. If
> > the
> > throttle is blipped, or any of the interlocks are hit, the CC shuts
> > off.
> >
> > The only thing that matters on the PCB for getting the tractor going
> > is
the
> > two diodes to the bottom right. They are part of a set of four and they
> > provide the power to the field. The rest of the PCB is simply a current
> > comparitor that allows or shuts down the field weakening circuit under
high
> > motor load. If it's dead speeds 6,7,8 are down, but that's it.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>Like I said - I need help. - Once I've got it running I'll start on
> >>the mower and blower...
> >
> >
> > Call Bill Gunn. He has all the answers.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 18:18:36 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Rod Hower <rodhower ameritech net>
> > Subject: Re: (ET) ET new technology and abandening the ICE
> > To: Elec-trak list <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> > Message-ID: <20040406011836 33693 qmail web80602 mail yahoo com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> > You need an Alltrax control!
> > I plan on ordering one tomorrow.
> > I know there are diehards on the list that prefer to keep original
> > equipment, but I will upgrade mine to the latest technology. Like
> > others
on
> > the list I plan on using this tractor as a practical machine and don't
care
> > much about keeping it original.
> > I would have converted an ICE machine to electric, but it's much
> > easier to
> > get an Elec Trak going, even if it is 30+ years old. My mower deck
> > will
use
> > 3 BLDC motors from work with lots of 'engineering' to connect the mower
> > blade. I would have used the original PMDC mower motors, but the
> > blade
and
> > mounting hardware were in very bad shape and required me to dismember
> > the
> > parts.
> > I'll post pictures when the job is finished.
> > Lots of work, but worth the effort since I don't have to listen to the
> > gas
> > engine.
> > Rod
> > --- Chris Zach <czach computer org> wrote:
> >
> >>Ok, the breadboard is fixed. Basically what I did was replace all four
> >>of the diodes with good old fashioned 3amp diodes from Radio Shack.
> >>The larger diodes have a forward voltage drop of .5 volts as opposed
> >>to 1.0 volts for the smaller ones. So I took a drill, enlarged the
> >>holes in the PCB slightly, and soldered in the new diodes.
> >>
> >>Put it back in; works like a champ. As a bonus, speeds 6 and 7 now
> >>come online. Now if I could just get a voltmeter that
> >>*works* and a bulb for
> >>the cruise control switch I would be 100% set for the summer.
> >>
> >>Meantime I will put in an order for 22 ohm resistors and the other
> >>oddball types and replace everything in the fall.
> >>
> >>Chris
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Elec-trak mailing list
> >>Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> >>
> >
> > https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:11:37 -0400
> > From: Chris Zach <czach computer org>
> > Subject: Re: (ET) ET new technology and abandening the ICE
> > To: Rod Hower <rodhower ameritech net>
> > Cc: Elec-trak list <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> > Message-ID: <407211D9 3060102 computer org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> >
> > > You need an Alltrax control!
> >
> > I need an Alltrax controller like I need a hole in my head.
> >
> > Seriously: The Elec-Trak controller is the model of simplicity and
> > logic.
I
> > have seven speeds times four gears; that's enough to get me the speed
> > control I need. I have regen and braking for excellent overall speed
> > control. And I have a little circuit that measures the armature
> > current
and
> > shuts down the field weakening circuit automagically when I overload
> > the
> > motor.
> >
> > And cruise control with a little light. What more can I need?
> >
> > This is not a car, where you want a wide amount of speed settings. I
> > have
28
> > possibilties between 0 and 7 miles per hour. That's not bad. And
> > besides,
I
> > usually use this thing for constant speed applications like mowing the
lawn
> > or blowing snow. Having a controller that never gives me the same speed
> > twice would be annoying.
> >
> > There might be a point in the fact the the E15's controller is a lot
> > more
> > parsnickety. This appears to be the case; it's logic board tries to do
> > a
lot
> > of things that the inherent nature of having contactors does for the
> > E-20
> > (there are no timing circuits on the E20 for example; the contactors
provide
> > the time for you). And the E20 reverses the motor the
> > *right* way: By reversing the armature with contactors as opposed to
> > the
> > field with relay points. The E15 was a cheaper design, but one can fix
that
> > too with simple discrete components.
> >
> > So for $5.00 for four diodes from Radio Shack my controller is fixed.
> > And will probably last for another 30 years. At which time I'll simply
> > replace the components again instead of scratching my head looking at a
> > solid-state thingie. I'm sure Radio space shack will sell diodes in
> > 2034.
> >
> > Probably the only remaining weak link is the relays. And to be honest
> > when
> > they die I could just build a 36 volt to 24 volt power controller for
$5.00
> > and replace the relays with modern 24 volt ones. Sealed too.
> > $25.00 and that's all done for the next 30 years.
> >
> > There's a place for everything. A contactor controller doesn't really
belong
> > on a car (like the Renault electrics) and a digital control doesn't
> > really
> > belong on a lawn tractor.
> >
> > As for using the tractor: My E20 is my main mowing and plowing machine.
> > The simpler the better. BLDC mower motors are nice, but it adds
> > complexity
> > when the omputer blows out.
> >
> > Chris Zach
> >
> >
> >
> > Rod Hower wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I plan on ordering one tomorrow.
> >>I know there are diehards on the list that prefer to keep original
> >>equipment, but I will upgrade mine to the latest technology. Like
> >>others on the list I plan on using this tractor as a practical machine
> >>and don't care much about keeping it original.
> >>I would have converted an ICE machine to electric, but it's much
> >>easier to get an Elec Trak going, even if it is 30+ years old. My
> >>mower deck will use 3 BLDC motors from work with lots of 'engineering'
> >>to connect the mower blade. I would have used the original PMDC mower
> >>motors, but the blade and mounting hardware were in very bad shape and
> >>required me to dismember the parts.
> >>I'll post pictures when the job is finished.
> >>Lots of work, but worth the effort since I don't have to listen to the
> >>gas engine.
> >>Rod
> >>--- Chris Zach <czach computer org> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Ok, the breadboard is fixed. Basically what I did was replace all four
> >>>of the diodes with good old fashioned 3amp diodes from Radio Shack.
> >>>The larger diodes have a forward voltage drop of .5 volts as opposed
> >>>to 1.0 volts for the smaller ones. So I took a drill, enlarged the
> >>>holes in the PCB slightly, and soldered in the new diodes.
> >>>
> >>>Put it back in; works like a champ. As a bonus, speeds 6 and 7 now
> >>>come online. Now if I could just get a voltmeter that
> >>>*works* and a bulb for
> >>>the cruise control switch I would be 100% set for the summer.
> >>>
> >>>Meantime I will put in an order for 22 ohm resistors and the other
> >>>oddball types and replace everything in the fall.
> >>>
> >>>Chris
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>Elec-trak mailing list
> >>>Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> >>>
> >>
> >>https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Elec-trak mailing list
> >>Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> >>https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:25:37 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Rod Hower <rodhower ameritech net>
> > Subject: Re: (ET) ET new technology and abandening the ICE
> > To: Chris Zach <czach computer org>, Rod Hower
> > <rodhower ameritech net>
> > Cc: Elec-trak list <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> > Message-ID: <20040406022537 15008 qmail web80606 mail yahoo com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> > Chris,
> > The GE control is over 30 years old.
> > Well designed but not the best upgrade for this machine. I think the
> > Alltrax control offers simplicity and better operation for people that
can't
> > deal with failing relays and SCR's that are over 30 years old. I'll
> > admitt
> > that my mower solution is not for everybody, in fact it's probably
> > only
for
> > me since I have access to free parts to perform this operation.
> > However,
> > the Alltrax control offers many users a simple and effective
> > replacement
for
> > an antiquated control.
> > Rod.
> > --- Chris Zach <czach computer org> wrote:
> >
> >> > You need an Alltrax control!
> >>
> >>I need an Alltrax controller like I need a hole in my head.
> >>
> >>Seriously: The Elec-Trak controller is the model of simplicity and
> >>logic. I have seven speeds times four gears; that's enough to get me
> >>the speed control I need. I have regen and braking for excellent
> >>overall speed control. And I have a little circuit that measures the
> >>armature current and shuts down the field weakening circuit
> >>automagically when I overload the motor.
> >>
> >>And cruise control with a little light. What more can I need?
> >>
> >>This is not a car, where you want a wide amount of speed settings. I
> >>have 28 possibilties between 0 and 7 miles per hour.
> >>That's not bad. And
> >>besides, I usually use this thing for constant speed applications like
> >>mowing the lawn or blowing snow. Having a controller that never gives
> >>me the same speed twice would be annoying.
> >>
> >>There might be a point in the fact the the E15's controller is a lot
> >>more parsnickety. This appears to be the case; it's logic board tries
> >>to do a lot of things that the inherent nature of having contactors
> >>does for the E-20 (there are no timing circuits on the E20 for
> >>example; the contactors provide the time for you). And the E20
> >>reverses the motor the
> >>*right* way: By reversing the armature with contactors as opposed to
> >>the field with relay points. The E15 was a cheaper design, but one can
> >>fix that too with simple discrete components.
> >>
> >>So for $5.00 for four diodes from Radio Shack my controller is fixed.
> >>And will probably last for another 30 years. At which time I'll simply
> >>replace the components again instead of scratching my head looking at
> >>a solid-state thingie. I'm sure Radio space shack will sell diodes in
> >>2034.
> >>
> >>Probably the only remaining weak link is the relays.
> >>And to be honest
> >>when they die I could just build a 36 volt to 24 volt power controller
> >>for $5.00 and replace the relays with modern 24 volt ones. Sealed too.
> >>$25.00 and that's all done for the next 30 years.
> >>
> >>There's a place for everything. A contactor controller doesn't really
> >>belong on a car (like the Renault electrics) and a digital control
> >>doesn't really belong on a lawn tractor.
> >>
> >>As for using the tractor: My E20 is my main mowing and plowing
> >>machine.
> >>The simpler the better. BLDC mower motors are nice, but it adds
> >>complexity when the omputer blows out.
> >>
> >>Chris Zach
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Rod Hower wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I plan on ordering one tomorrow.
> >>>I know there are diehards on the list that prefer to keep original
> >>>equipment, but I will upgrade
> >>
> >>mine
> >>
> >>>to the latest technology. Like others on the list I plan on using
> >>>this tractor as a practical
> >>
> >>machine
> >>
> >>>and don't care much about keeping it original.
> >>>I would have converted an ICE machine to electric, but it's much
> >>>easier to get an Elec Trak going,
> >>
> >>even
> >>
> >>>if it is 30+ years old. My mower deck will use 3
> >>
> >>BLDC
> >>
> >>>motors from work with lots of 'engineering' to
> >>
> >>connect
> >>
> >>>the mower blade. I would have used the original
> >>
> >>PMDC
> >>
> >>>mower motors, but the blade and mounting hardware
> >>
> >>were
> >>
> >>>in very bad shape and required me to dismember the parts.
> >>>I'll post pictures when the job is finished.
> >>>Lots of work, but worth the effort since I don't
> >>
> >>have
> >>
> >>>to listen to the gas engine.
> >>>Rod
> >>>--- Chris Zach <czach computer org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Ok, the breadboard is fixed. Basically what I did was replace all
> >>>>four of the diodes with good old fashioned 3amp diodes from Radio
> >>>>Shack. The larger diodes have a forward voltage drop of .5 volts as
> >>>>opposed to 1.0 volts for the smaller ones. So I took a drill,
> >>>>enlarged the holes in the PCB slightly, and soldered in the new
> >>>>diodes.
> >>>>
> >>>>Put it back in; works like a champ. As a bonus, speeds 6 and 7 now
> >>>>come online. Now if I could just get a voltmeter that
> >>>>*works* and a bulb for
> >>>>the cruise control switch I would be 100% set for the summer.
> >>>>
> >>>>Meantime I will put in an order for 22 ohm
> >>
> >>resistors
> >>
> >>>>and the other
> >>>>oddball types and replace everything in the fall.
> >>>>
> >>>>Chris
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>Elec-trak mailing list
> >>>>Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> > https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> >
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>Elec-trak mailing list
> >>>Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> >>>
> >>
> > https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> >
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 22:43:58 -0400
> > From: Chris Zach <czach computer org>
> > Subject: Re: (ET) ET new technology and abandening the ICE
> > To: Rod Hower <rodhower ameritech net>
> > Cc: Elec-trak list <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> > Message-ID: <4072196E 3040708 computer org>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
> >
> > Mmm... I'm over 30 years old. And still going pretty well.
> >
> > I'm not going to blast the Alltrax controller; it's probably a great
> > product. I just don't see the reasoning behind going with a more
> > complex
> > solution when a simpler one can do the job.
> >
> > Then again my 68 911L Porsche has carburators. Which do require a
> > little
bit
> > of work to keep running, happy, drop of oil, etc. But I will say
> > this: When I was on the highway and my accel cable broke I simply
> > turned
the
> > idle screws up to 4,000 RPM and drove the car home.
> >
> > When my 95 Dodge Caravan with it's computer controlled 3.0L engine
> > decided
> > it didn't want to run anymore I was dead as a doornail. There is no
> > way
you
> > can bypass the MPS, or work around a shot computer. You're stuck on
> > the
side
> > of the road.
> >
> > Yes, carbs have their downside (less efficient, more pollution) but the
> > computer that they rely on is in your noggin. Same for the E20. When it
> > comes to technology I like my products to be as dumb as a box of
> > hammers.
> >
> > Simpler to fix in a pinch. Like when it's snowing.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > Rod Hower wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Chris,
> >>The GE control is over 30 years old.
> >>Well designed but not the best upgrade for this machine. I think the
> >>Alltrax control offers simplicity and better operation for people that
> >>can't deal with failing relays and SCR's that are over 30 years old.
> >>I'll admitt that my mower solution is not for everybody, in fact it's
> >>probably only for me since I have access to free parts to perform this
> >>operation. However, the Alltrax control offers many users a simple
> >>and effective replacement for an antiquated control.
> >>Rod.
> >>--- Chris Zach <czach computer org> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>>You need an Alltrax control!
> >>>
> >>>I need an Alltrax controller like I need a hole in my head.
> >>>
> >>>Seriously: The Elec-Trak controller is the model of simplicity and
> >>>logic. I have seven speeds times four gears; that's enough to get me
> >>>the speed control I need. I have regen and braking for excellent
> >>>overall speed control. And I have a little circuit that measures the
> >>>armature current and shuts down the field weakening circuit
> >>>automagically when I overload the motor.
> >>>
> >>>And cruise control with a little light. What more can I need?
> >>>
> >>>This is not a car, where you want a wide amount of speed settings. I
> >>>have 28 possibilties between 0 and 7 miles per hour.
> >>>That's not bad. And
> >>>besides, I usually use this thing for constant speed applications like
> >>>mowing the lawn or blowing snow. Having a controller that never gives
> >>>me the same speed twice would be annoying.
> >>>
> >>>There might be a point in the fact the the E15's controller is a lot
> >>>more parsnickety. This appears to be the case; it's logic board tries
> >>>to do a lot of things that the inherent nature of having contactors
> >>>does for the E-20 (there are no timing circuits on the E20 for
> >>>example; the contactors provide the time for you). And the E20
> >>>reverses the motor the
> >>>*right* way: By reversing the armature with contactors as opposed to
> >>>the field with relay points. The E15 was a cheaper design, but one can
> >>>fix that too with simple discrete components.
> >>>
> >>>So for $5.00 for four diodes from Radio Shack my controller is fixed.
> >>>And will probably last for another 30 years. At which time I'll simply
> >>>replace the components again instead of scratching my head looking at
> >>>a solid-state thingie. I'm sure Radio space shack will sell diodes in
> >>>2034.
> >>>
> >>>Probably the only remaining weak link is the relays.
> >>>And to be honest
> >>>when they die I could just build a 36 volt to 24 volt power controller
> >>>for $5.00 and replace the relays with modern 24 volt ones. Sealed too.
> >>>$25.00 and that's all done for the next 30 years.
> >>>
> >>>There's a place for everything. A contactor controller doesn't really
> >>>belong on a car (like the Renault electrics) and a digital control
> >>>doesn't really belong on a lawn tractor.
> >>>
> >>>As for using the tractor: My E20 is my main mowing and plowing
> >>>machine.
> >>>The simpler the better. BLDC mower motors are nice, but it adds
> >>>complexity when the omputer blows out.
> >>>
> >>>Chris Zach
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Rod Hower wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I plan on ordering one tomorrow.
> >>>>I know there are diehards on the list that prefer to keep original
> >>>>equipment, but I will upgrade
> >>>
> >>>mine
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>to the latest technology. Like others on the list I plan on using
> >>>>this tractor as a practical
> >>>
> >>>machine
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>and don't care much about keeping it original.
> >>>>I would have converted an ICE machine to electric, but it's much
> >>>>easier to get an Elec Trak going,
> >>>
> >>>even
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>if it is 30+ years old. My mower deck will use 3
> >>>
> >>>BLDC
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>motors from work with lots of 'engineering' to
> >>>
> >>>connect
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>the mower blade. I would have used the original
> >>>
> >>>PMDC
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>mower motors, but the blade and mounting hardware
> >>>
> >>>were
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>in very bad shape and required me to dismember the parts.
> >>>>I'll post pictures when the job is finished.
> >>>>Lots of work, but worth the effort since I don't
> >>>
> >>>have
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>to listen to the gas engine.
> >>>>Rod
> >>>>--- Chris Zach <czach computer org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Ok, the breadboard is fixed. Basically what I did was replace all
> >>>>>four of the diodes with good old fashioned 3amp diodes
> >>>>
> >>>>>from Radio Shack. The
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>larger diodes have a forward voltage drop of .5 volts as opposed to
> >>>>>1.0 volts for the smaller ones. So I took a drill, enlarged the
> >>>>>holes in the PCB slightly, and soldered in the new diodes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Put it back in; works like a champ. As a bonus, speeds 6 and 7 now
> >>>>>come online. Now if I could just get a voltmeter that
> >>>>>*works* and a bulb for
> >>>>>the cruise control switch I would be 100% set for the summer.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Meantime I will put in an order for 22 ohm
> >>>
> >>>resistors
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>and the other
> >>>>>oddball types and replace everything in the fall.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Chris
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>Elec-trak mailing list
> >>>>>Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> >>
> >>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>Elec-trak mailing list
> >>>>Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 23:52:07 -0400
> > From: "John B Reinhard" <reinharj frontiernet net>
> > Subject: Re: (ET) ET new technology and abandening the ICE
> > To: <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> > Message-ID: <000d01c41b8a$88bde680$6401a8c0 frontiernet net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > I have to say I partly agree with both Chris and Rod !
> >
> > I like simplicity - as far as the fact that I can see the smoked diode
> > on
> > the control board, or the burned wire or relay contacts, or corroded
> > pins
in
> > the connectors - and I can probably hack together a repair - to get by
> > in
an
> > emergency.
> >
> > It is hard to see inside the sealed Alltrax controller, if something
> > goes
> > wrong.
> >
> > I have been an electronics tech for over 20 years, designed circuit
boards,
> > and programmed a few microcontrollers to control some low power
> > motors,
etc.
> > Short of using acid/dremel tool to remove the potting compound, and
> > then
> > reverse-engineering the control circuit (and software) inside the
controller
> > (if the software is not code-protected to prevent reading it) - I
> > would be
> > as stuck as Chris said, if the controller failed.
> >
> > Having said that, I agree as much or more with Rod: I am really tired
> > of
> > messing with all the corroded cicuit boards, contactors, relays,
> > connectors, switches and wires between the 3 still-assembled tractors
> > I
own.
> >
> > I dream of installing the Alltrax Controller - and having extreme
> > reliability - except for really simple maintenance like: lubrication,
> > tire
> > pressure, and battery water - for the next 10 years.
> >
> > I might keep the second E-20, in case I have that urge to kill the
> > weekend
> > cutting apart old contactors or relays, and swapping contacts, etc !
> > :>)
> >
> > Mostly, this past winter, I just wanted to snowblow my driveway (my
shoulder
> > still hurts from all the shoveling).
> > It was usually too miserable outside to want to troubleshoot all the
> > possible problems with all the 30 year old parts.
> > I know it was most likely only 1 single dead part - that cost less
> > than $5
> > to replace (or I probably even had a spare !).
> > The question was always - WHICH part is bad this time?
> > I guess I could go out and buy all new contactors, relays, wire,
connectors
> > & pins, and circuit boards and switches, etc. I think the price of
> > all
the
> > parts might be less than the Alltrax.
> > BUT, have any of you guys ever sat down and stripped ALL the wire, and
> > crimped all the pins & terminals (& usually soldered them also, to
> > reduce
> > corrosion), and fitted all the connectors to rebuild a wiring harness ?
> >
> > Something tells me I could install the Alltrax in a couple hours.
> > Rebuilding the original wiring harness could take days.
> > Then, connecting to all the various relays & contactors & etc takes a
> > bit
> > more time . . .
> > Does Bill Gunn sell the wiring harnesses?
> >
> > Anyone besides Steve Richardson complete the conversion to AllTrax
> > controller yet?
> > Anyone convert an E-20?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chris Zach" <czach computer org>
> > To: "Rod Hower" <rodhower ameritech net>
> > Cc: "Elec-trak list" <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 10:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: (ET) ET new technology and abandening the ICE
> >
> >
> >
> >>Mmm... I'm over 30 years old. And still going pretty well.
> >>
> >>I'm not going to blast the Alltrax controller; it's probably a great
> >>product. I just don't see the reasoning behind going with a more
> >>complex
> >>solution when a simpler one can do the job.
> >>
> >>Then again my 68 911L Porsche has carburators. Which do require a
> >>little
> >>bit of work to keep running, happy, drop of oil, etc. But I will say
> >>this: When I was on the highway and my accel cable broke I simply
> >>turned
> >>the idle screws up to 4,000 RPM and drove the car home.
> >>
> >>When my 95 Dodge Caravan with it's computer controlled 3.0L engine
> >>decided it didn't want to run anymore I was dead as a doornail. There
> >>is
> >>no way you can bypass the MPS, or work around a shot computer. You're
> >>stuck on the side of the road.
> >>
> >>Yes, carbs have their downside (less efficient, more pollution) but the
> >>computer that they rely on is in your noggin. Same for the E20. When it
> >>comes to technology I like my products to be as dumb as a box of
> >>hammers.
> >>
> >>Simpler to fix in a pinch. Like when it's snowing.
> >>
> >>Chris
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Rod Hower wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Chris,
> >>>The GE control is over 30 years old.
> >>>Well designed but not the best upgrade for
> >>>this machine. I think the Alltrax control offers
> >>>simplicity and better operation for people that
> >>>can't deal with failing relays and SCR's that
> >>>are over 30 years old. I'll admitt that my mower
> >>>solution is not for everybody, in fact it's probably
> >>>only for me since I have access to free parts to
> >>>perform this operation. However, the Alltrax control
> >>>offers many users a simple and effective replacement
> >>>for
> >>>an antiquated control.
> >>>Rod.
> >>>--- Chris Zach <czach computer org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>You need an Alltrax control!
> >>>>
> >>>>I need an Alltrax controller like I need a hole in
> >>>>my head.
> >>>>
> >>>>Seriously: The Elec-Trak controller is the model of
> >>>>simplicity and
> >>>>logic. I have seven speeds times four gears; that's
> >>>>enough to get me the
> >>>>speed control I need. I have regen and braking for
> >>>>excellent overall
> >>>>speed control. And I have a little circuit that
> >>>>measures the armature
> >>>>current and shuts down the field weakening circuit
> >>>>automagically when I
> >>>>overload the motor.
> >>>>
> >>>>And cruise control with a little light. What more
> >>>>can I need?
> >>>>
> >>>>This is not a car, where you want a wide amount of
> >>>>speed settings. I
> >>>>have 28 possibilties between 0 and 7 miles per hour.
> >>>>That's not bad. And
> >>>>besides, I usually use this thing for constant speed
> >>>>applications like
> >>>>mowing the lawn or blowing snow. Having a controller
> >>>>that never gives me
> >>>>the same speed twice would be annoying.
> >>>>
> >>>>There might be a point in the fact the the E15's
> >>>>controller is a lot
> >>>>more parsnickety. This appears to be the case; it's
> >>>>logic board tries to
> >>>>do a lot of things that the inherent nature of
> >>>>having contactors does
> >>>>for the E-20 (there are no timing circuits on the
> >>>>E20 for example; the
> >>>>contactors provide the time for you). And the E20
> >>>>reverses the motor the
> >>>>*right* way: By reversing the armature with
> >>>>contactors as opposed to the
> >>>>field with relay points. The E15 was a cheaper
> >>>>design, but one can fix
> >>>>that too with simple discrete components.
> >>>>
> >>>>So for $5.00 for four diodes from Radio Shack my
> >>>>controller is fixed.
> >>>>And will probably last for another 30 years. At
> >>>>which time I'll simply
> >>>>replace the components again instead of scratching
> >>>>my head looking at a
> >>>>solid-state thingie. I'm sure Radio space shack will
> >>>>sell diodes in 2034.
> >>>>
> >>>>Probably the only remaining weak link is the relays.
> >>>>And to be honest
> >>>>when they die I could just build a 36 volt to 24
> >>>>volt power controller
> >>>>for $5.00 and replace the relays with modern 24 volt
> >>>>ones. Sealed too.
> >>>>$25.00 and that's all done for the next 30 years.
> >>>>
> >>>>There's a place for everything. A contactor
> >>>>controller doesn't really
> >>>>belong on a car (like the Renault electrics) and a
> >>>>digital control
> >>>>doesn't really belong on a lawn tractor.
> >>>>
> >>>>As for using the tractor: My E20 is my main mowing
> >>>>and plowing machine.
> >>>>The simpler the better. BLDC mower motors are nice,
> >>>>but it adds
> >>>>complexity when the omputer blows out.
> >>>>
> >>>>Chris Zach
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Rod Hower wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>I plan on ordering one tomorrow.
> >>>>>I know there are diehards on the list that prefer
> >>>>>to keep original equipment, but I will upgrade
> >>>>
> >>>>mine
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>to the latest technology. Like others on the list
> >>>>>I plan on using this tractor as a practical
> >>>>
> >>>>machine
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>and don't care much about keeping it original.
> >>>>>I would have converted an ICE machine to electric,
> >>>>>but it's much easier to get an Elec Trak going,
> >>>>
> >>>>even
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>if it is 30+ years old. My mower deck will use 3
> >>>>
> >>>>BLDC
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>motors from work with lots of 'engineering' to
> >>>>
> >>>>connect
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>the mower blade. I would have used the original
> >>>>
> >>>>PMDC
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>mower motors, but the blade and mounting hardware
> >>>>
> >>>>were
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>in very bad shape and required me to dismember the
> >>>>>parts.
> >>>>>I'll post pictures when the job is finished.
> >>>>>Lots of work, but worth the effort since I don't
> >>>>
> >>>>have
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>to listen to the gas engine.
> >>>>>Rod
> >>>>>--- Chris Zach <czach computer org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Ok, the breadboard is fixed. Basically what I did
> >>>>>>was replace all four
> >>>>>>of the diodes with good old fashioned 3amp diodes
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>from Radio Shack. The
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>larger diodes have a forward voltage drop of .5
> >>>>>>volts as opposed to 1.0
> >>>>>>volts for the smaller ones. So I took a drill,
> >>>>>>enlarged the holes in the
> >>>>>>PCB slightly, and soldered in the new diodes.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Put it back in; works like a champ. As a bonus,
> >>>>>>speeds 6 and 7 now come
> >>>>>>online. Now if I could just get a voltmeter that
> >>>>>>*works* and a bulb for
> >>>>>>the cruise control switch I would be 100% set for
> >>>>>>the summer.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Meantime I will put in an order for 22 ohm
> >>>>
> >>>>resistors
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>and the other
> >>>>>>oddball types and replace everything in the fall.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Chris
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>>Elec-trak mailing list
> >>>>>>Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>>Elec-trak mailing list
> >>>>>Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Elec-trak mailing list
> >>Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> >>https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elec-trak mailing list
> > Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> > https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> >
> >
> > End of Elec-trak Digest, Vol 2, Issue 136
> > *****************************************
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elec-trak mailing list
> > Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> > https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elec-trak mailing list
> Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
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