Re: Starting ringing

[Michael Tartell <tartell g harvard edu>]

I apologize to all for not being more active, both in online ringing
sessions and in this thread.  Work has been especially busy and draining in
recent months, for both SARS2 specific and general grad school reasons.

I don't really have anything to add, and the DC ringers list I think is
very comprehensive.  Masks should be required.  Outside of specific medical
environments, face shields are relatively unproven.  Opening windows is a
good idea.  I can tell you an air circulator with a HEPA filter will trap
viruses (it's what we use in labs to exhaust the airflow when working with
viruses), but I have no idea if such a system would be anything close to
feasible in tower.

As for testing, despite the fact that the technology for quick/easy tests
exists, none of them have been scaled up yet for large-scale use.  Current
testing may only provide a delayed snapshot of exposure.

The long story short is it will all come down to risk tolerance.  Good
mitigation procedures during practice will significantly reduce the
possibility of transmission (others may have a better grip of the actual
probabilities than me), and good practices in daily life will minimize the
possibility someone will bring it to the tower at all.  However, the risk
of transmission will be low, but never zero.

I'm hoping things will slow down a bit and I'll be able to make it to
online practices again, but it might be a few more weeks (obviously, all my
plans to come visit in person were smashed long ago).  I hope you all
continue to stay safe and healthy.

-Michael Tartell

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On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 11:12 AM John Schreiner <jeschreiner17 gmail com>
wrote:

> My thoughts have been towards purposeful air circulation and filtration.
> They make air filter units for workshops that are usually installed
> horizontally over a bench, but if we installed one close to the center of
> the ringing room with the filter at the bottom, a little above head 
> height,
> and outflow pointing up, my ideal-world airflow would come down behind 
> the
> ringers, gather up all exhalations, and draw them straight to and through
> the filters, sending clean air up to the ceiling to repeat the cycle. It
> does not have to be a terribly strong current, just a consistent one.
>
> The two problems I see are that the fluid dynamics of an idealized round
> formation may not happen in a square-footprint room, especially if 
> windows
> are opened. The second problem is that the inexpensive (~$200) units tend
> to be noisy, around 65 decibels, which may still be workable but 
> certainly
> not great for communication.
>
> Even the inexpensive units have a 5 micron pre-filter and 1 micron inner
> filter, which is more than sufficient for wood dust but I am not sure 
> about
> droplets. Finer filters yet may be available, and I have heard that there
> are filters capable of cleaning the air sufficiently. Collecting all of 
> the
> exhaled droplets (that evade masks) in the filters seems a bit gross, but
> if they really do die in three days on hard surfaces and faster on soft
> surfaces, leaving the unit running on a timer for a while after ringers
> leave and not messing with it for three days ought to be safe.
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 11:38 AM Gregory Russell <gfr10598 gmail com>
> wrote:
>
> > Regarding testing, there is discussion heating up about differences
> between
> > tests like ID Now vs PCR.  For this purpose, a cheap, fast test that
> > detects high viral load may be much more useful than a more sensitive
> test
> > that is slow and expensive.  Recent medcram video addressed this, 
> > though
> > I'm afraid it got technical details wrong.
> >
> > But the focus in the US has been on the latter, so the availability of
> the
> > former is lagging.  8-(
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 11:14 AM Austin Paul <austinjpaul gmail com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks all for the discussion.
> > >
> > > I've been talking with Dale who has been communicating with Advent 
> > > and
> I
> > > have created a survey that I will send around shortly after some
> revision
> > > (probably sometime this afternoon).
> > >
> > > Some points regarding above:
> > > - Should it be relevant, I would advise towards the ,13,5,7 over the
> > > 1,4,6,8: strapping to raise the tenor is right out, and doing it 
> > > alone
> > > might be too aerobic and particle-generatey for the time being. (I 
> > > also
> > > think the odd-bell set sounds nicer, but that's a personal taste)
> > > - You can look up what the WHO says about aerosol transmission, but
> > > basically the jury's out so we can't rule it out yet.
> > >
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/health/coronavirus-aerosols-who.html,
> > >
> https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-how-is-covid-19-transmitted
> > > - Testing is not easy, painless, and accessible enough to make it
> > feasible
> > > to have people tested every time before ringing. And as a further
> point,
> > > false negatives are a thing, today's Globe has a nice op-ed about it
> > here:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/07/22/opinion/what-does-negative-coronavirus-test-really-reveal/
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 10:32 AM Richard Morse via
> Boston-change-ringers
> > <
> > > boston-change-ringers cosmos phy tufts edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ok, I’ve just spent a bit looking through my RSS feeds at both home
> and
> > > > work, and also doing some googling. Whatever I saw, it didn’t come
> > > through
> > > > RSS, which means it was probably through Twitter, so that’s not
> > > trustworthy
> > > > (not that RSS is more inherently trustworthy, but it’s easier for 
> > > > me
> to
> > > > find it and evaluate the source).
> > > >
> > > > So I also searched online (both DDG and Google). Apparently right 
> > > > now
> > the
> > > > answer is that there is no consensus about whether face shields can
> > > replace
> > > > face masks. I’ve found a bunch of different news sites (not wildly
> > > partisan
> > > > ones, but ones that at least pretend they are interested in the
> truth)
> > > > basically saying that there is not enough evidence.
> > > >
> > > > The CDC’s guidance is:
> > > >
> > > > > It is not known if face shields provide any benefit as source
> control
> > > to
> > > > protect others from the spray of respiratory particles. CDC does 
> > > > not
> > > > recommend use of face shields for normal everyday activities or as 
> > > > a
> > > > substitute for cloth face coverings. Some people may choose to use 
> > > > a
> > face
> > > > shield when sustained close contact with other people is expected. 
> > > > If
> > > face
> > > > shields are used without a mask, they should wrap around the sides 
> > > > of
> > the
> > > > wearer’s face and extend to below the chin. Disposable face shields
> > > should
> > > > only be worn for a single use. Reusable face shields should be
> cleaned
> > > and
> > > > disinfected after each use.
> > > >
> > > > So who knows…
> > > >
> > > > Ricky
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Jul 23, 2020, at 8:25 AM, Richard Morse via
> Boston-change-ringers
> > <
> > > > boston-change-ringers cosmos phy tufts edu> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I just saw yesterday or the day before some article saying that
> face
> > > > shields by themselves are not effective; you need the masks as 
> > > > well…
> > > > >
> > > > >> On Jul 23, 2020, at 4:34 AM, Gregory Russell <gfr10598 gmail 
> > > > >> com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Some other ideas...
> > > > >> 1. are full face shields an acceptable alternative to masks?
> > > > >> 2. Should we investigate installing acrylic barriers?
> > > > >> 3. Could/should we organize different bands with different 
> > > > >> levels
> of
> > > > risk
> > > > >> tolerance?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> For the latter, I would envision creating dividers, suspended 
> > > > >> off
> > the
> > > > >> floor, 3' high, basically like an apple slicer with a larger
> center.
> > > > >> Probably about $1000 for materials.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.amazon.com/Slicer-Cutter-Divider-8-Blade-Stainless/dp/B07S1MD7KB/ref=asc_df_B07S1MD7KB
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 9:17 AM <lauradi rcn com> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> They have done a good job with this list. The Change-ringing
> online
> > > > group
> > > > >>> has had a lot of stuff as well, including a long thread called
> > > > staircases,
> > > > >>> which mentions the only one person touches stuff rule. The 
> > > > >>> stairs
> > > (and
> > > > at
> > > > >>> the Advent, anteroom) don't leave room for distancing, so a
> > > sequential
> > > > >>> arrival would be needed, with the first person up opening
> windows.
> > > > >>> The ringers at Chelmsford Cathedral UK have been posting videos
> of
> > > > their
> > > > >>> return
> > > > >>> The one from the 12th had distance, no mask, and an open window
> > > > >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NlZ55-iuAY
> > > > >>> In yesterday's video, one couldn't even see an open window, but
> > there
> > > > >>> might have been one elsewhere in the room
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsJLCIvp_U8
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I would want distance, masks, and open windows (I presume that
> will
> > > be
> > > > >>> true for me even in January). I think we could agree on methods
> in
> > > > advance
> > > > >>> by email, if people don't think a lot of conducting is safe. As
> > > > Danielle
> > > > >>> mentioned, we'd need to register at the Advent. Even if we're 
> > > > >>> not
> > > > attending
> > > > >>> the service, we'd be sharing the space.
> > > > >>> https://reopen.church/r/QRkr33bG
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I'll be interested to see how Old North does with the tourists,
> > > before
> > > > >>> worshippers start showing up again in September.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Laura Dickerson
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> From: "Edward Futcher via Boston-change-ringers" <
> > > > >>> boston-change-ringers cosmos phy tufts edu>
> > > > >>> To: "Bcr" <boston-change-ringers cosmos phy tufts edu>
> > > > >>> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 6:01:15 AM
> > > > >>> Subject: Starting ringing
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> The list of items below has been given some thought by the DC
> > > ringers.
> > > > >>> Some items are not applicable to Boston ringing, but this might
> be
> > a
> > > > good
> > > > >>> starting point for a discussion in Boston.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Ed
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> From: Robert Bannister
> > > > >>> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 9:12 AM
> > > > >>> To: WRSList Groups io
> > > > >>> Subject: [WRS] PLEASE RESPOND re: safety measures
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Hi, all. Thanks to all who participated in the discussion
> following
> > > > >>> practice Tuesday night regarding the draft list of safety
> measures.
> > > > After
> > > > >>> further back and forth among the officers, we landed on the
> revised
> > > > list
> > > > >>> below. Please reply to me by this Wednesday night (July 22) as 
> > > > >>> to
> > > > whether
> > > > >>> you’d be interested in participating in Sunday service ringing
> with
> > > > these
> > > > >>> safety measures in place. Your response doesn’t obligate you 
> > > > >>> one
> > way
> > > > or the
> > > > >>> other. You can change your mind later. And keep in mind that 
> > > > >>> the
> > > safety
> > > > >>> measure may need to be updated to conform with Cathedral
> reopening
> > > > >>> protocols once those are developed and provided to us. However,
> we
> > > are
> > > > >>> trying to understand if enough ringers are interested in a 
> > > > >>> return
> > to
> > > > Sunday
> > > > >>> service ringing with these measures in place before we present
> them
> > > to
> > > > the
> > > > >>> Cathedral, so please do give your response some thought before
> > > > responding.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Thanks,
> > > > >>> Rob
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> • Inspect the bells and ropes to ensure they’re safe to ring
> > > > >>> • Anyone with an elevated temperature or otherwise feeling 
> > > > >>> unwell
> > > must
> > > > not
> > > > >>> participate. Likewise, anyone with Covid symptoms or who has
> tested
> > > > >>> positive or been in contact with anyone with symptoms, must not
> > > > participate
> > > > >>> until they have self-isolated for 2 weeks.
> > > > >>> • No visitors
> > > > >>> • Limit frequency of ringing to Sunday service ringing only (at
> > least
> > > > >>> initially)
> > > > >>> • Limit the duration of ringing to 15-30 minutes
> > > > >>> • Limit the number of bells rung initially to enforce social
> > > distancing
> > > > >>> while ringing (probably no more than 5 non-adjacent bells)
> > > > >>> • Limit the number of ringers in the ringing room (just enough 
> > > > >>> to
> > > ring)
> > > > >>> • Keep ringers on same ropes for entire session (including
> ringing
> > up
> > > > and
> > > > >>> down)
> > > > >>> • Accessing the ringing room
> > > > >>> o When ascending to and descending from the overcroft level, no
> > more
> > > > than
> > > > >>> 2 people will ride the elevator together
> > > > >>> o When using the central tower elevator, only 1 person will 
> > > > >>> ride
> > the
> > > > >>> elevator per trip
> > > > >>> o When using the spiral staircase, leave ample time and space
> > between
> > > > >>> ascents/descents
> > > > >>> • Either open the windows or run the HVAC system to maximize 
> > > > >>> air
> > > > >>> circulation based on prevailing weather conditions
> > > > >>> • Wear face masks upon entering the Cathedral and at all times
> when
> > > in
> > > > the
> > > > >>> tower, including while ringing
> > > > >>> • Wash hands with soap and water before/after ringing and keep
> hand
> > > > >>> sanitizer in the ringing room
> > > > >>> • Avoid shouting (e.g., by ringing plain courses of simple
> methods)
> > > > >>> • Minimize sharing of items
> > > > >>> o Assign only one person to turn on/off lights, open/close
> windows,
> > > > etc.
> > > > >>> o Assign same person for removal/replacement of silencer for
> given
> > > > bell(s)
> > > > >>> o Minimize handling of items in the ringing room (e.g., limit 
> > > > >>> use
> > of
> > > > water
> > > > >>> cooler)
> > > > >>> • Maintain record of ringers who have been in the ringing 
> > > > >>> chamber
> > to
> > > > >>> assist with contact tracing if the need arises
> > > > >>> • Adjust protocols to comply with Cathedral’s if Cathedral’s 
> > > > >>> are
> > more
> > > > >>> restrictive
> > > > >>> _._,_._,_
> > > > >>>
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