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Re: Starting ringing

My thoughts have been towards purposeful air circulation and filtration.
They make air filter units for workshops that are usually installed
horizontally over a bench, but if we installed one close to the center of
the ringing room with the filter at the bottom, a little above head height,
and outflow pointing up, my ideal-world airflow would come down behind the
ringers, gather up all exhalations, and draw them straight to and through
the filters, sending clean air up to the ceiling to repeat the cycle. It
does not have to be a terribly strong current, just a consistent one.

The two problems I see are that the fluid dynamics of an idealized round
formation may not happen in a square-footprint room, especially if windows
are opened. The second problem is that the inexpensive (~$200) units tend
to be noisy, around 65 decibels, which may still be workable but certainly
not great for communication.

Even the inexpensive units have a 5 micron pre-filter and 1 micron inner
filter, which is more than sufficient for wood dust but I am not sure about
droplets. Finer filters yet may be available, and I have heard that there
are filters capable of cleaning the air sufficiently. Collecting all of the
exhaled droplets (that evade masks) in the filters seems a bit gross, but
if they really do die in three days on hard surfaces and faster on soft
surfaces, leaving the unit running on a timer for a while after ringers
leave and not messing with it for three days ought to be safe.

John

On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 11:38 AM Gregory Russell <gfr10598 gmail com> 
wrote:

> Regarding testing, there is discussion heating up about differences 
> between
> tests like ID Now vs PCR.  For this purpose, a cheap, fast test that
> detects high viral load may be much more useful than a more sensitive 
> test
> that is slow and expensive.  Recent medcram video addressed this, though
> I'm afraid it got technical details wrong.
>
> But the focus in the US has been on the latter, so the availability of 
> the
> former is lagging.  8-(
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 11:14 AM Austin Paul <austinjpaul gmail com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks all for the discussion.
> >
> > I've been talking with Dale who has been communicating with Advent and 
> > I
> > have created a survey that I will send around shortly after some 
> > revision
> > (probably sometime this afternoon).
> >
> > Some points regarding above:
> > - Should it be relevant, I would advise towards the ,13,5,7 over the
> > 1,4,6,8: strapping to raise the tenor is right out, and doing it alone
> > might be too aerobic and particle-generatey for the time being. (I also
> > think the odd-bell set sounds nicer, but that's a personal taste)
> > - You can look up what the WHO says about aerosol transmission, but
> > basically the jury's out so we can't rule it out yet.
> > https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/health/coronavirus-aerosols-who.html,
> > https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-how-is-covid-19-transmitted
> > - Testing is not easy, painless, and accessible enough to make it
> feasible
> > to have people tested every time before ringing. And as a further 
> > point,
> > false negatives are a thing, today's Globe has a nice op-ed about it
> here:
> >
> >
> https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/07/22/opinion/what-does-negative-coronavirus-test-really-reveal/
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 10:32 AM Richard Morse via 
> > Boston-change-ringers
> <
> > boston-change-ringers cosmos phy tufts edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Ok, I’ve just spent a bit looking through my RSS feeds at both home 
> > > and
> > > work, and also doing some googling. Whatever I saw, it didn’t come
> > through
> > > RSS, which means it was probably through Twitter, so that’s not
> > trustworthy
> > > (not that RSS is more inherently trustworthy, but it’s easier for me 
> > > to
> > > find it and evaluate the source).
> > >
> > > So I also searched online (both DDG and Google). Apparently right now
> the
> > > answer is that there is no consensus about whether face shields can
> > replace
> > > face masks. I’ve found a bunch of different news sites (not wildly
> > partisan
> > > ones, but ones that at least pretend they are interested in the 
> > > truth)
> > > basically saying that there is not enough evidence.
> > >
> > > The CDC’s guidance is:
> > >
> > > > It is not known if face shields provide any benefit as source 
> > > > control
> > to
> > > protect others from the spray of respiratory particles. CDC does not
> > > recommend use of face shields for normal everyday activities or as a
> > > substitute for cloth face coverings. Some people may choose to use a
> face
> > > shield when sustained close contact with other people is expected. If
> > face
> > > shields are used without a mask, they should wrap around the sides of
> the
> > > wearer’s face and extend to below the chin. Disposable face shields
> > should
> > > only be worn for a single use. Reusable face shields should be 
> > > cleaned
> > and
> > > disinfected after each use.
> > >
> > > So who knows…
> > >
> > > Ricky
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On Jul 23, 2020, at 8:25 AM, Richard Morse via 
> > > > Boston-change-ringers
> <
> > > boston-change-ringers cosmos phy tufts edu> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I just saw yesterday or the day before some article saying that 
> > > > face
> > > shields by themselves are not effective; you need the masks as well…
> > > >
> > > >> On Jul 23, 2020, at 4:34 AM, Gregory Russell <gfr10598 gmail com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Some other ideas...
> > > >> 1. are full face shields an acceptable alternative to masks?
> > > >> 2. Should we investigate installing acrylic barriers?
> > > >> 3. Could/should we organize different bands with different levels 
> > > >> of
> > > risk
> > > >> tolerance?
> > > >>
> > > >> For the latter, I would envision creating dividers, suspended off
> the
> > > >> floor, 3' high, basically like an apple slicer with a larger 
> > > >> center.
> > > >> Probably about $1000 for materials.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://www.amazon.com/Slicer-Cutter-Divider-8-Blade-Stainless/dp/B07S1MD7KB/ref=asc_df_B07S1MD7KB
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 9:17 AM <lauradi rcn com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> They have done a good job with this list. The Change-ringing 
> > > >>> online
> > > group
> > > >>> has had a lot of stuff as well, including a long thread called
> > > staircases,
> > > >>> which mentions the only one person touches stuff rule. The stairs
> > (and
> > > at
> > > >>> the Advent, anteroom) don't leave room for distancing, so a
> > sequential
> > > >>> arrival would be needed, with the first person up opening 
> > > >>> windows.
> > > >>> The ringers at Chelmsford Cathedral UK have been posting videos 
> > > >>> of
> > > their
> > > >>> return
> > > >>> The one from the 12th had distance, no mask, and an open window
> > > >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NlZ55-iuAY
> > > >>> In yesterday's video, one couldn't even see an open window, but
> there
> > > >>> might have been one elsewhere in the room
> > > >>>
> > > >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsJLCIvp_U8
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I would want distance, masks, and open windows (I presume that 
> > > >>> will
> > be
> > > >>> true for me even in January). I think we could agree on methods 
> > > >>> in
> > > advance
> > > >>> by email, if people don't think a lot of conducting is safe. As
> > > Danielle
> > > >>> mentioned, we'd need to register at the Advent. Even if we're not
> > > attending
> > > >>> the service, we'd be sharing the space.
> > > >>> https://reopen.church/r/QRkr33bG
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I'll be interested to see how Old North does with the tourists,
> > before
> > > >>> worshippers start showing up again in September.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Laura Dickerson
> > > >>>
> > > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >>>
> > > >>> From: "Edward Futcher via Boston-change-ringers" <
> > > >>> boston-change-ringers cosmos phy tufts edu>
> > > >>> To: "Bcr" <boston-change-ringers cosmos phy tufts edu>
> > > >>> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 6:01:15 AM
> > > >>> Subject: Starting ringing
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The list of items below has been given some thought by the DC
> > ringers.
> > > >>> Some items are not applicable to Boston ringing, but this might 
> > > >>> be
> a
> > > good
> > > >>> starting point for a discussion in Boston.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Ed
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> > > >>>
> > > >>> From: Robert Bannister
> > > >>> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 9:12 AM
> > > >>> To: WRSList Groups io
> > > >>> Subject: [WRS] PLEASE RESPOND re: safety measures
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Hi, all. Thanks to all who participated in the discussion 
> > > >>> following
> > > >>> practice Tuesday night regarding the draft list of safety 
> > > >>> measures.
> > > After
> > > >>> further back and forth among the officers, we landed on the 
> > > >>> revised
> > > list
> > > >>> below. Please reply to me by this Wednesday night (July 22) as to
> > > whether
> > > >>> you’d be interested in participating in Sunday service ringing 
> > > >>> with
> > > these
> > > >>> safety measures in place. Your response doesn’t obligate you one
> way
> > > or the
> > > >>> other. You can change your mind later. And keep in mind that the
> > safety
> > > >>> measure may need to be updated to conform with Cathedral 
> > > >>> reopening
> > > >>> protocols once those are developed and provided to us. However, 
> > > >>> we
> > are
> > > >>> trying to understand if enough ringers are interested in a return
> to
> > > Sunday
> > > >>> service ringing with these measures in place before we present 
> > > >>> them
> > to
> > > the
> > > >>> Cathedral, so please do give your response some thought before
> > > responding.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks,
> > > >>> Rob
> > > >>>
> > > >>> • Inspect the bells and ropes to ensure they’re safe to ring
> > > >>> • Anyone with an elevated temperature or otherwise feeling unwell
> > must
> > > not
> > > >>> participate. Likewise, anyone with Covid symptoms or who has 
> > > >>> tested
> > > >>> positive or been in contact with anyone with symptoms, must not
> > > participate
> > > >>> until they have self-isolated for 2 weeks.
> > > >>> • No visitors
> > > >>> • Limit frequency of ringing to Sunday service ringing only (at
> least
> > > >>> initially)
> > > >>> • Limit the duration of ringing to 15-30 minutes
> > > >>> • Limit the number of bells rung initially to enforce social
> > distancing
> > > >>> while ringing (probably no more than 5 non-adjacent bells)
> > > >>> • Limit the number of ringers in the ringing room (just enough to
> > ring)
> > > >>> • Keep ringers on same ropes for entire session (including 
> > > >>> ringing
> up
> > > and
> > > >>> down)
> > > >>> • Accessing the ringing room
> > > >>> o When ascending to and descending from the overcroft level, no
> more
> > > than
> > > >>> 2 people will ride the elevator together
> > > >>> o When using the central tower elevator, only 1 person will ride
> the
> > > >>> elevator per trip
> > > >>> o When using the spiral staircase, leave ample time and space
> between
> > > >>> ascents/descents
> > > >>> • Either open the windows or run the HVAC system to maximize air
> > > >>> circulation based on prevailing weather conditions
> > > >>> • Wear face masks upon entering the Cathedral and at all times 
> > > >>> when
> > in
> > > the
> > > >>> tower, including while ringing
> > > >>> • Wash hands with soap and water before/after ringing and keep 
> > > >>> hand
> > > >>> sanitizer in the ringing room
> > > >>> • Avoid shouting (e.g., by ringing plain courses of simple 
> > > >>> methods)
> > > >>> • Minimize sharing of items
> > > >>> o Assign only one person to turn on/off lights, open/close 
> > > >>> windows,
> > > etc.
> > > >>> o Assign same person for removal/replacement of silencer for 
> > > >>> given
> > > bell(s)
> > > >>> o Minimize handling of items in the ringing room (e.g., limit use
> of
> > > water
> > > >>> cooler)
> > > >>> • Maintain record of ringers who have been in the ringing chamber
> to
> > > >>> assist with contact tracing if the need arises
> > > >>> • Adjust protocols to comply with Cathedral’s if Cathedral’s are
> more
> > > >>> restrictive
> > > >>> _._,_._,_
> > > >>>
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> > > >
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> Boston-change-ringers mailing list
> > > >>> Boston-change-ringers cosmos phy tufts edu
> > > >>>
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> > > >> _______________________________________________
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> > > >> Boston-change-ringers cosmos phy tufts edu
> > > >> https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/boston-change-ringers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Boston-change-ringers mailing list
> > > > Boston-change-ringers cosmos phy tufts edu
> > > > https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/boston-change-ringers
> > >
> > >
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