Re: (ET) Ground up ET build

[Robert Troll <roberttroll hotmail com>]

Lets see.

I had a E-15, E-20, I-2 (yes an actual I-2) and a I-5. The frames on the 
E-15, E-20, and I-2 were identical. The frame on the I-5 was boxed in in 
the front and back. You can weld in the I-20 or any other frame, to get 
yourself the same "upgrade". The frames themselves are plenty strong for 
what they were meant to do.

The I-2 and I-5 also had the heavy duty spindles. That is also a must for 
any new machine.

No reason to keep any of the stock controls. A standard Curits 1204 works 
perfectly with these machines, and you can simply change direction by 
switching the field voltage. No high amperage F/R contactor is needed. The 
field on these machines never sees more than 5 amps. Put in a modern 
controller and you wont look back. I have done several.

You can certainly do all your driveway clearing, and grass cutting with 
one, but taking one in the woods or a wet field is where you need 4WD. And 
you certainly wont be pulling out any significant rocks or trees with one.

At the end of the day these are garden tractors, not compact tractors. If 
you wanted an electric CUT you will need to build one yourself using CUT 
components. You can easily restore a ET and buy a nice diesel CUT for 
under 25k.

________________________________
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tufts edu>
Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2022 2:18 PM
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Subject: Elec-trak Digest, Vol 20, Issue 32

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Today's Topics:

   1.  Ground up ET build (Greg Curran)
   2. Re:  Ground up ET build (Larry Chace)
   3. Re:  Ground up ET build (RJ Kanary)
   4. Re:  Ground up ET build (Chad Bush)
   5. Re:  Ground up ET build (William Wallace)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 12:19:42 -0400
From: Greg Curran <gcurran323 gmail com>
To: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
Subject: (ET) Ground up ET build
Message-ID:
        <CAJ=p12+FC9i+1mu8bPx4ggmaitBt-yT8otNp0Lf82FzuCz62AQ mail gmail 
com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hey everyone,

It?s been a long time since I?ve commented as I sold both of my tractors
about 7 years ago. That said, it?s great to get these emails from the group
as it shows the community is still going strong.

I just started looking at a 5-acre piece of wooded land in the northeast
with a long, and steep, driveway. I?m not looking to clear cut it by any
means but there will be a lot of work to be done there. When all is said
and done, I?d like to have an acre dedicated to the house and lawn, 2 acres
for farming, and the remaining 2 acres kept as woods. In terms of land
clearing, I want to do almost all of it myself, with the help of a few
friends here and there.

To get the property to where I want it to be, and to keep it there after
that, I?ll need a good tractor. I used to own an E12 that was an absolute
tank but now I?d be looking to upgrade to something along the lines of an
E20 or even slightly bigger than that. I emailed with a guy out of Nixa, MO
a few years back that does essentially ground up Elec-Trak builds with
thicker frames than the original models and all of the new electronics (
http://www.aclectrictractors.com/tractors.html). I?ve been considering
purchasing one of those and finding myself/building myself a loader to go
with it. That said, I?m also considering doing a ground up build myself as
I might go slightly bigger.

My question for the group is: given your experience using your own
Elec-Traks, if you were doing a slightly beefier ground up build of an E20
($25k budget), with new electronics, what would you want in your updated
version (stronger frame, 48v system, power steering, 4wd, etc.)? Please
keep in mind that I?ll be moving A LOT of dirt and gravel, piles of wood,
and large rocks (after I dig them up). Most of this will be done on uneven
wooded terrain (not talking mountainous here but not level fields either).
I?ll also be plowing roughly 300 feet of steep driveway multiple times each
winter.

Thanks in advance for any helpful tips/insights! If you need any more
details feel free to let me know.

Best,
Greg
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 13:16:04 -0400
From: Larry Chace <RLC1 etnainstruments com>
To: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
Subject: Re: (ET) Ground up ET build
Message-ID: <p05210600df1449176a0c@[192.168.0.93]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Greg Curran asked about wishes for a beefier ET.  What an interesting idea!

Greg, can you tell us where in the Northeast you will be?  I'm near
Ithaca, NY, "centrally isolated" with plenty of winter weather, but
probably not as severe as Maine or northern Vermont or New Hampshire.
I have an E15 for plowing and mowing and an I-5 for hauling and
snowthrowing.  The 700 foot long driveway is somewhat sloped, enough
that the tractors clearly prefer to go downhill rather than uphill,
especially with the snowthrower (aka "battery eater").

Both tractors seem to have about the same power, with the E15 running
somewhat more slowly than the I-5. They are usually run with the
speed control set to maximum, using gears to select the appropriate
ground speed: LL for in-garage movements, L for hauling and meadow
mowing, D1 for lawn mowing and snow plowing, and D2 mostly for moving
from place to place.  Snowplowing and lawn mowing need more frequent
fwd/rev switching, and so the E15's hand control is more convenient.
For hauling, the I-5' foot controller and cruise control is
convenient.  However, I added a switch to each tractor to avoid
getting into electric speeds 5, 6, and 7.  On the I-5 that also gives
an increased amount of dynamic braking.

For driveway clearing (700' by 12'), the E15 and plow do a great job
unless the snow is too deep (a foot or more, depending on moisture
content).  The snowthrower works well but it really drains the
batteries; one trip downhill is all that they will tolerate.  I had
to replace its drive chain once -- a truly unpleasent task (in the
winter, of course).

I use a 3-bank 10-amp Minn-kota charger, plugging it into whichever
tractor needs it most.  Both tractors also have their original GE
chargers and the tractor garage has two 20-amp circuits, so both can
be charged simultaneously.

Both tractors got new Crown batteries about 10 years ago.  There is
no indication that I can see that they may be approaching their
end-of-life.  The most annoying problem is the infamous reverse relay
lock-up on the E15.  Even being VERY careful to aovid changing the
FWD/REW switch while in motion, sometimes it just happens and that
means pushing the tractor into the garage for relay replacement (the
problem seems to be worse in the winter).  Luckily, the house and
garage are at the downhill end of the driveway.

The I-5's brake is just barely adequate and the E-15 brake does
nothing.  Luckily, the snow plow and mower deck provide a certain
amount of braking.  Both tractors have chains all the time.  (The
best part of the lawn in mowed with a Ryobi cordless push mower
rather than with the E15.)

What would be good to have?  Eliminate the fwd/rev relay problem,
have a less power-hungry snowthrower, have a good way to clean the
bottom of the mower deck,
speed up the E15's transions from electric speed 1 to electric speed 3.

My father worked for GE and I enjoy seeing the GE monogram in the
center of the steering wheel whenever I drive the tractors.

In Greg's situation, it might be good to have *two* tractors.  A few
times I've had to use one of them to pull the other.  (When I had
just the I-5, my wife said "you should have a spare".)

Larry Chace, Ithaca, NY  E15 and I-5




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 15:26:35 -0400
From: RJ Kanary <rjkanary consolidated net>
To: Larry Chace <RLC1 etnainstruments com>,
        elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
Subject: Re: (ET) Ground up ET build
Message-ID: <22d73057-cec5-b9cb-db5d-cc28103aaa2f consolidated net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

 ????? The Brute Force approach that I would employ would entail
re-fitting the control system to employ the use of armature contactors
for reversing. Unless there is a superior method of surge suppression
available during cycling from F to R, that poor relay ALWAYS takes the
hit. :(

 ????? On a lark, I put a set of contactors in my E-10, just to see the
results. With the permanent magnet motor, the stops from F to R were
violent, but tolerable. :)


RJ

On 8/6/2022 1:16 PM, Larry Chace wrote:
> Greg Curran asked about wishes for a beefier ET.? What an interesting
> idea!
>
> Greg, can you tell us where in the Northeast you will be?? I'm near
> Ithaca, NY, "centrally isolated" with plenty of winter weather, but
> probably not as severe as Maine or northern Vermont or New Hampshire.
> I have an E15 for plowing and mowing and an I-5 for hauling and
> snowthrowing.? The 700 foot long driveway is somewhat sloped, enough
> that the tractors clearly prefer to go downhill rather than uphill,
> especially with the snowthrower (aka "battery eater").
>
> Both tractors seem to have about the same power, with the E15 running
> somewhat more slowly than the I-5. They are usually run with the speed
> control set to maximum, using gears to select the appropriate ground
> speed: LL for in-garage movements, L for hauling and meadow mowing, D1
> for lawn mowing and snow plowing, and D2 mostly for moving from place
> to place.? Snowplowing and lawn mowing need more frequent fwd/rev
> switching, and so the E15's hand control is more convenient. For
> hauling, the I-5' foot controller and cruise control is convenient.?
> However, I added a switch to each tractor to avoid getting into
> electric speeds 5, 6, and 7.? On the I-5 that also gives an increased
> amount of dynamic braking.
>
> For driveway clearing (700' by 12'), the E15 and plow do a great job
> unless the snow is too deep (a foot or more, depending on moisture
> content).? The snowthrower works well but it really drains the
> batteries; one trip downhill is all that they will tolerate.? I had to
> replace its drive chain once -- a truly unpleasent task (in the
> winter, of course).
>
> I use a 3-bank 10-amp Minn-kota charger, plugging it into whichever
> tractor needs it most.? Both tractors also have their original GE
> chargers and the tractor garage has two 20-amp circuits, so both can
> be charged simultaneously.
>
> Both tractors got new Crown batteries about 10 years ago.? There is no
> indication that I can see that they may be approaching their
> end-of-life.? The most annoying problem is the infamous reverse relay
> lock-up on the E15.? Even being VERY careful to aovid changing the
> FWD/REW switch while in motion, sometimes it just happens and that
> means pushing the tractor into the garage for relay replacement (the
> problem seems to be worse in the winter). Luckily, the house and
> garage are at the downhill end of the driveway.
>
> The I-5's brake is just barely adequate and the E-15 brake does
> nothing.? Luckily, the snow plow and mower deck provide a certain
> amount of braking.? Both tractors have chains all the time.? (The best
> part of the lawn in mowed with a Ryobi cordless push mower rather than
> with the E15.)
>
> What would be good to have?? Eliminate the fwd/rev relay problem, have
> a less power-hungry snowthrower, have a good way to clean the bottom
> of the mower deck,
> speed up the E15's transions from electric speed 1 to electric speed 3.
>
> My father worked for GE and I enjoy seeing the GE monogram in the
> center of the steering wheel whenever I drive the tractors.
>
> In Greg's situation, it might be good to have *two* tractors.? A few
> times I've had to use one of them to pull the other.? (When I had just
> the I-5, my wife said "you should have a spare".)
>
> Larry Chace, Ithaca, NY? E15 and I-5
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elec-trak mailing list
> Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
>
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2022 09:57:54 -0400
From: Chad Bush <bushman165s aol com>
To: RJ Kanary via Elec-trak <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
Subject: Re: (ET) Ground up ET build
Message-ID: <bf5851a5-d70b-40c5-944f-0f48556ec78d email android com>
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2022 14:18:12 +0000 (UTC)
From: William Wallace <bill-wallace att net>
To: Greg Curran <gcurran323 gmail com>
Cc: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
Subject: Re: (ET) Ground up ET build
Message-ID: <d27fab1c-9008-4e31-b526-070427e2e66b att net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

This sounds bigger than an Elec Trak.? More like an Early CJ farmjeep.

https://www.farmjeep.com/

There's enough early CJ to home build one if you're up for that.

Thanks,
Bill

Aug 6, 2022 12:20:20 PM Greg Curran <gcurran323 gmail com>:

> Hey everyone,
>
> It?s been a long time since I?ve commented as I sold both of my tractors
> about 7 years ago. That said, it?s great to get these emails from the 
> group
> as it shows the community is still going strong.
>
> I just started looking at a 5-acre piece of wooded land in the northeast
> with a long, and steep, driveway. I?m not looking to clear cut it by any
> means but there will be a lot of work to be done there. When all is said
> and done, I?d like to have an acre dedicated to the house and lawn, 2 
> acres
> for farming, and the remaining 2 acres kept as woods. In terms of land
> clearing, I want to do almost all of it myself, with the help of a few
> friends here and there.
>
> To get the property to where I want it to be, and to keep it there after
> that, I?ll need a good tractor. I used to own an E12 that was an absolute
> tank but now I?d be looking to upgrade to something along the lines of an
> E20 or even slightly bigger than that. I emailed with a guy out of Nixa, 
> MO
> a few years back that does essentially ground up Elec-Trak builds with
> thicker frames than the original models and all of the new electronics (
> http://www.aclectrictractors.com/tractors.html). I?ve been considering
> purchasing one of those and finding myself/building myself a loader to go
> with it. That said, I?m also considering doing a ground up build myself 
> as
> I might go slightly bigger.
>
> My question for the group is: given your experience using your own
> Elec-Traks, if you were doing a slightly beefier ground up build of an 
> E20
> ($25k budget), with new electronics, what would you want in your updated
> version (stronger frame, 48v system, power steering, 4wd, etc.)? Please
> keep in mind that I?ll be moving A LOT of dirt and gravel, piles of wood,
> and large rocks (after I dig them up). Most of this will be done on 
> uneven
> wooded terrain (not talking mountainous here but not level fields 
> either).
> I?ll also be plowing roughly 300 feet of steep driveway multiple times 
> each
> winter.
>
> Thanks in advance for any helpful tips/insights! If you need any more
> details feel free to let me know.
>
> Best,
> Greg
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> Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak



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