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Re: (ET) ok, not the fusible link



HEY RJ - best one yet on this thread.  Time's a wastin.  And if she ain't
fixed right shortly, it is very hard to do Etroubleshootin with mittens
on.

Dave
Weymouth MA


On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 22:26:48 -0400 "RJ Kanary" <rjkanary nauticom net>
writes:
>         If CB-1 is open, NOTHING works. Including the lift motor. 
> Also the 
> RTN circuits. No RTN, no PTO.CB-2, on the firewall, prevents the 
> firewall 
> taking on the literal sense of the term in the event that one of the 
> charger 
> diodes should fail shorted.
>       As far as repairing the fuse holder.........depends on your 
> determination.While you are pondering that, get an inline fuse 
> holder, 
> splice it in, and get this thing working.We're burning daylight 
> here, and 
> soon it will be snow plowing time...................
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Michael S Briggs" <msbriggs alberti unh edu>
> To: "RJ Kanary" <rjkanary nauticom net>
> Cc: <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 10:08 PM
> Subject: Re: (ET) ok, not the fusible link
> 
> 
> >
> > RJ,
> >  Alrighty, will do (tomorrow morning). It will be my first time
> > doing anything on the drive motor - haven't touched it yet.
> >  Kind of funny - based on the schematics, I figured it could be
> > CB-1 - but I thought that was the thermal breaker near the fuse 
> panel. :)
> >  It may have failed - but it's seeming now like it should be
> > something else, since after soldering that control fuse holder, I 
> am
> > seeing some voltage on the fuel gauge (doesn't seem to be reading
> > accurately though), and from the schematic, it looks like the fuel 
> gauge
> > shouldn't read anything if CB-1 is open. Also, the PTO outlet 
> isn't
> > working, and CB-1 isn't on that circuit (at least it looks that 
> way from
> > the schematic).
> >  On the fuse holder - is there any way to fix the old one, or
> > should the whole thing be replaced? So far, it's seemed like my 
> attempt at
> > soldering the connection there hasn't been very effective.
> >  Hm, just realized that I haven't tried running the lift motor
> > since it died - I'm assuming it doesn't work, but knowing for sure 
> might
> > help isolate the problem. I'll try that in the morning too.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mike
> >
> > -- 
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > Michael S. Briggs
> > UNH Physics Department
> > (603) 862-2828
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > On Sat, 29 Jul 2006, RJ Kanary wrote:
> >
> >>    Knowing now that you have an AA model..................<VBG>, 
> I can 
> >> tell
> >> you that the early fuse holders were problematic. What ever fault 
> cause 
> >> the
> >> fuse to open could well have finished off the holder as well.
> >>      Remember that bad high current connection that I suspected 
> that you 
> >> may
> >> have, due to the motorboating and chattering that you had ?  I 
> think that 
> >> you
> >> just may find it now. Take a look at CB-1, that large Klixon® 
> thermal 
> >> limiter
> >> on the traction motor case . If it has failed open, nothing would 
> power 
> >> up,
> >> including the "Fuel Gauge".
> >>        Fix the fuse holder, investigate CB-1, and report back 
> with your
> >> findings. :)
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael S Briggs"
> >> <msbriggs alberti unh edu>
> >> To: "RJ Kanary" <rjkanary nauticom net>
> >> Cc: <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> >> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:08 PM
> >> Subject: Re: (ET) ok, not the fusible link
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> RJ,
> >>>  Mine's an AA.
> >>>  An update on what I've looked over:
> >>>  Since the fuel gauge wasn't showing anything, I decided to try 
> tracking
> >>> the path around it to see where the path was broken. From the 
> positive 
> >>> end
> >>> of the pack to the fuel gauge was fine, the problem was on the 
> end from 
> >>> the
> >>> - end of the pack to the fuel gauge. The path was fine to the 
> fuse 
> >>> holder,
> >>> and fine from the fuel gauge to the side of the fuse holder 
> closest to 
> >>> it.
> >>> So, that would seem to indicate blown fuse - but the fuse was 
> fine. What 
> >>> I
> >>> ended up finding was that with the fuse in the fuse holder, it 
> had no
> >>> connection to the screw terminal where the wires connect.
> >>>  I tried just cleaning everything out well, filing off any 
> possible 
> >>> rust,
> >>> and then sprayed it down with De-Oxit cleaner, but still 
> nothing.
> >>>  The rivet connection where the fuse holder is connected to the 
> plate 
> >>> that
> >>> the screw is on (where the wires connect) was loose and wobbly, 
> >>> apparently
> >>> not making a good connection. The other fuse holders looked nice 
> and 
> >>> tight
> >>> at that rivet, but not this one - so I figured maybe I had 
> somehow 
> >>> weakened
> >>> the rivet when I pulled out the blown fuse to replace it.
> >>>  So, I figured I'd try soldering that connection to make a 
> better 
> >>> contact
> >>> between the fuse holder and the screwed in connections. That may 
> not 
> >>> have
> >>> been a great idea (that block with the fuse holders connected 
> doesn't 
> >>> seem
> >>> to like the heat), but it did at least get it where now when I 
> engage 
> >>> the
> >>> power disconnect, I do get a reading on the fuel meter gauge - 
> but it 
> >>> was
> >>> much lower than it should have been, and still nothing works - 
> no drive
> >>> motor, no PTO, etc..
> >>>  So, for the time being I pushed the tractor back into the 
> garage (man 
> >>> that
> >>> thing is heavy - especially when you're pushing it up a hill). 
> Got a 
> >>> good
> >>> workout though. :)
> >>>  It may just be that the fuel gauge is reading low due to some 
> >>> additional
> >>> resistance somewhere in the path (perhaps at the fuse holder), 
> but I'm 
> >>> also
> >>> suspicious that the pack may have been slowly discharging 
> through some
> >>> short somewhere - so I disconnected the negative-most battery 
> terminal.
> >>>  Apparently something other than just the fuse did blow, I just 
> need to
> >>> figure out what. What could cause this symptom of no power to 
> anything? 
> >>> The
> >>> fuel gauge meter was showing nothing also, until I tried 
> soldering that
> >>> fuse holder connection - but perhaps I shouldn't have done that. 
> When I
> >>> then decided to check the resistance between the fuses 
> themselves and 
> >>> the
> >>> wires connected to the terminals on the fuseholders for the 
> other two
> >>> fuses, they also seem to have no connection (between the fuse 
> and the
> >>> screws on the fuse block) - don't know if they were like that 
> initially, 
> >>> if
> >>> they're supposed to be that way, or if I screwed something up 
> when
> >>> soldering that one fuse block.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>> -- 
> >>>
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> Michael S. Briggs
> >>> UNH Physics Department
> >>> (603) 862-2828
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006, RJ Kanary wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>   Once again, I will ask what flavor of E-15 you have. Since 
> they have
> >>>> three different wiring configurations, knowing which revision 
> yours is,
> >>>> {AA, BA and so on.} would help me help you. The pertinent 
> information 
> >>>> is
> >>>> on the data plate under the hood.
> >>>> Thanks.
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael S Briggs"
> >>>> <msbriggs alberti unh edu>
> >>>> To: <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 4:08 PM
> >>>> Subject: (ET) ok, not the fusible link
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Found a post from Wombat in the archives saying where the 
> fusible link 
> >>>>> is
> >>>>> - just a wire going across two terminals on the Power 
> Disconnect. Ok, 
> >>>>> so
> >>>>> the fusible link is fine, so it's apparnetly something else.
> >>>>>  Based on the wisps of smoke that came up around the speed 
> lever,
> >>>>> it seems reasonable to suspect something underneath it may 
> have blown.
> >>>>> There's that big ol relay down underneath there - but that's 
> just the 
> >>>>> PTO
> >>>>> contactor. Unless it's failure mode is creating a short across 
> the
> >>>>> batteries, I can't see that being the problem, since it's not 
> just the
> >>>>> PTO
> >>>>> that's not working - nothing is.
> >>>>>  I suppose the smoke could have come from something in the 
> speed
> >>>>> control itself, but that shouldn't cause the no power at all 
> problem 
> >>>>> (at
> >>>>> least from looking at the schematics, I don't think it 
> should).
> >>>>>  From looking at the Troubleshooting sketch schematic for the 
> E-15
> >>>>> in the manual, and just looking at what might result in the 
> fuel level
> >>>>> gauge not seeing squat, the only things between the fuel level 
> gauge 
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> the batteries (so the only things that keep it from reading 
> batt 
> >>>>> voltage)
> >>>>> are:
> >>>>> 1. Power Use gauge - checked it with the multimeter, it's 
> fine.
> >>>>> 2. 20 Amp fuse 3 - it blew initially, I replaced it with 20 
> amp light
> >>>>> fuse
> >>>>> for the moment.
> >>>>> 3. Wire 13 goes from that fuse to the PTO coil (is this the 
> PTO
> >>>>> contactor?
> >>>>> Or some other coil?), but you don't seem to need to have a 
> connection
> >>>>> THROUGH the coil for the fuel gauge, since line 13 comes off 
> of that 
> >>>>> same
> >>>>> connection point on the terminal, and continues to the fuel 
> gauge - on
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> negative side of it.
> >>>>> 4. Line 5 comes off the + side of the fuel gauge, goes to fuse 
> 2 (the
> >>>>> lift
> >>>>> fuse, but doesn't go through it, just connects to one end of 
> it, and
> >>>>> continues on from that same connection point), continues to 
> the L
> >>>>> contactor, but not through it, and to circuit breaker 1. Hm, 
> haven't
> >>>>> checked that yet - isn't that the main circuit breaker on the 
> back of 
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> panel that has the forward/reverse relay and such on it? I 
> pressed it 
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> reset in case it was the issue, but it seemed to be fine. I'll 
> check
> >>>>> again
> >>>>> in a  minute just in case.
> >>>>> 5. Power Disconnect, which presumably doesn't itself fail in 
> any way -
> >>>>> I'll check though.
> >>>>> 6. Fusible link - fine.
> >>>>> 7. And then to the + side of the pack.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, presumably something in there is failed. I'll head back 
> out with 
> >>>>> my
> >>>>> multimeter and trace the line all around.
> >>>>>  This is kinda fun, albeit somewhat frustrating, since I had 
> other
> >>>>> things I wanted to do.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mike
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -- 
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> Michael S. Briggs
> >>>>> UNH Physics Department
> >>>>> (603) 862-2828
> >>>>> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Elec-trak mailing list
> >>>>> Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> >>>>> https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> 
> 
> 
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