Re: (ET) Ccccold Batteries

[PH <pholzsc yahoo com>]

Hi Chris,
I have only had the Landis for 10 months and limited
use in the winter.  
For mowing the Landis gives the same range as the old
timer.  
After mowing the pack voltage would drop to 36vdc
[about 45% charge] for both the Landis and the timer. 
Yes I check the voltage before and after each mow. 
Therefore if the Landis was not charging correctly,
the pack voltage [or discharge state] would be less
after mowing with the Landis.

I asked Landis about equalizing and he said the
equalizing would take place on a 100% charged pack,
since the ET charger output is about 45vdc.  I would
like Landis to explain more about this issue.

I still feel having a 100% charged pack all the time
with the Landis is a big improvement over the timer.  

Anyone know if Trojan released their modern charger?

Thanks,
Paul Holzschuher
Cincinnati
E15   C185

--- Christopher Zach <czach computer org> wrote:
> I think you're finding the problem in the Landis
> charge controller that I
> mentioned in earlier posts. It's simply not
> equalizing the pack. And with
> the pack out of whack your hack will be in the sack,
> jack.
> 
> (You have to admit that was a nifty bit of
> alliteration)
> 
> Seriously, the problem simply is that the Landis can
> not compensate for
> either temperature or equalization voltages. I have
> this discussion on the
> EV list, as I own a 95 Geo Prizm electric with a 300
> volt pack (two strings
> of *25* batteries). I'm quite familiar at this point
> with charge voltages
> (charge to 15 volts per battery) and equailization
> voltages (15.6 volts per
> battery) for 50 minutes. On the Elec-trak this works
> out to a charge voltage
> of 45 volts with a top-end equalize of 46.8 volts.
> 
> Now, on the Elec-trak you probably don't need that
> last little bit. But you
> should be taking your pack above 42 volts. And to be
> honest you should take
> it up to 45. And *hold it there* For a length of
> time. That's what the timer
> is for.
> 
> Temp compensation: You should add an additional 3mv
> per cell (Elec-trak has
> 18 cells in six batteries) per degree centigrade
> below 20 degrees
> centigrade. At 0 degrees C (freezing) you're looking
> at adding an additional
> volt to the above numbers. Note this is the temp of
> the battery, NOT the
> outside temp.
> 
> I'm sorry if this comes down a bit on the Landis
> concept: It's a neat idea
> and seems like it should work. The problem is if you
> use only the Landis,
> your batteries will never get fully charged; some
> will charge more than
> others. Then range is determined by the weakest
> battery. If you turn the
> Landis up too high, your batteries will simply
> overcharge, and boil the
> water away. Too low and you don't get the equalize.
> 
> The dial charger on the Elec-Trak and that big
> honking transformer is as
> dumb a solution as there can be. It's really stupid.
> And it results in the
> batteries being somewhat overcharged and boiling off
> a bit of water. But
> these are flooded batteries; you can add water with
> no problem. And the
> timer will cut off before you cook the batteries
> anyway.
> 
> It's a simple solution. And I hate to say it, but
> unless you want to build a
> really complicated charge system it's the best way
> to go. Use the timer.
> 
> As for the foot switch, take it all apart and lube
> the plates with a *bit*
> of grease. Makes it happier.
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "T Humphrey" <thumphrey mynra com>
> To: <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 2:43 PM
> Subject: (ET) Ccccold Batteries
> 
> 
> > OK Where do I start.....
> >
> > It's cold and so are my batteries. So obviously I
> have reduced
> > range.
> >
> > I have noticed two things and have some questions
> also so if my
> > thoughts seem distracted it's because they are,
> please bear with
> > me.
> >
> >
> > I have a Landis controller. I noticed one day when
> it was a nice
> > warm -10 degrees outside (yeah, neg 10, not
> uncommon in the
> > northeast lately) that my range was greatly
> reduced. I was plowing
> > the driveway, then the neighbors driveway, and 
> STOP, no slowing
> > down just STOP. No readings on the gauges, no
> power to anything.
> > Actually I should confess, my wife was doing the
> plowing, and
> > could not tell me what the gauges were doing just
> before the shut
> > down. Anyway after about 6-7 minutes, click,
> everything came back
> > up. I told her to take it back to the garage.
> >
> > Plugged it in, it immediately started to charge,
> .....good. I am
> > fortunate that I heat my house with a wood boiler,
> and it is in
> > the same garage stall as the ET. So I have a real
> good reason to
> > visit the ET every 4 hours or so. I noticed after
> about 12 hours
> > that the charger had stopped and was now in the
> "Landis Phase".
> > This seemed really bad to me, since when I was
> using the stock
> > timer it would run continuous for what 15-18 hours
> or so. Has
> > anyone timed the timer?
> >
> > Two days later, she was plowing again. She could
> not finish our
> > own driveway, let alone the neighbors. I figured
> it was not a full
> > charge on the batteries. (Yes David, I will go get
> a hydrometer).
> > So I did two things;
> >
> > 1. I made a jumper wire that I can clip onto the
> Landis Controller
> > to bypass it, which allows it to run constantly
> until I remove the
> > jumper.
> >
> > 2. Figuring in the sub-zero cold this time of
> year, I reset to
> > Landis Controller to come on at 41v.  Thats 2.27
> vpc, is this too
> > high, should I go higher? I will reset it back to
> 39 when the
> > warmer weather comes. I noticed after a 36 hour
> constant on charge
> > (very slight gassing, almost unnoticable) with the
> controller set
> > at 41v, it is still cycling every 20 minutes or
> so.
> >
> > After my 36 hour charge, I was able to plow my
> driveway and have
> > lots of power when I got done. Put it on charge,
> let the Landis
> > charge it, It started cycling after less than 8
> hours so I
> > bypassed it for the overnight, in case I needed it
> again in the
> > AM.  Then let the Landis take over. Like I said I
> am in the garage
> > at leat every 4 hours, so there's no chance that I
> will forget to
> > remove the bypass.
> >
> > There is one more possibility that could result in
> my wifes loss
> > of power on the tractor. The pedal is very
> sluggish on the return
> > stroke when it's this cold. If she, I, we, were to
> stop the
> > tractor with the brake, and the pedal didn't
> return all the way
> > off, then the tractor will not restart until it
> gets "reset to
> > zero". I noticed many times, when I was plowing,
> that I had to
> > lift the slider with my toe. Any suggestions, I'm
> thinking heavier
> > spring as this one is pretty weak at the top.
> >
> >
> > trying to...
> >
> > Stay Charged!
> > Hump
> > I-5 NY
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
=== message truncated ===


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