RE: (ET) RE: EVLN(42v Li-ion ICE batt, mild hybrids: as an EV forshort di stances)

[Larry Elie <lelie ford com>]

Dwight wrote;

----------
From:   Hazen, Dwight L[SMTP:hazen indiana edu]
Sent:   Monday, May 24, 1999 2:42 PM
To:     'Chris Meier'; 'darrylmcmahon igs net'; 'elec-trak cosmos5 phy 
tufts edu'
Cc:     'jnaab indiana edu'; 'plaue net66 com'; 'amirza indiana edu'
Subject:        RE: (ET) RE: EVLN(42v Li-ion ICE batt, mild hybrids: as an 
EV forshort di stances)

;I think the Headlights are tapped to the battery pack at the 12 volt 
level.

They are.  The problem is that this causes two batteries to be lower than 
others, 
which cuts the 'range' (cutting time) for the tractor.

;The electric winch ( Delco, car wiper motor) is six volts connected to one
;six volt battery. I am looking to replace the headlights with some sealed

Nope, it is 18v, connected to 3 batteries.

;beam units. They now make rectangular replacement units for cars that 
should
;fit. 

;Air Conditioning for the ElecTrak with the snow cab.. What a concept!

;   Dwight.  


I have to watch it what I say here.  I know people on the 42V committee 
(it is multi-company) 
and others testing the devices.  Yes, there will be 42V/12V systems soon, 
and probably 
42V systems later.  Yes, the wires to the devices will be smaller/lighter 
and will save some 
weight.  Now I will part the waves from what is normally believed; a 42 
volt motor to drive a 
given torque at a given RPM will be essentially the same size and weight 
as a 12 volt motor 
that drives the same torque and RPM.  Yes, the wires ARE smaller, but 
there are more of 
them to get the new voltage drop.  The packing efficiency drops with the 
smaller wire, and 
the package for the 'new' device is essentially the same.  That is not the 
official Ford line, 
but it is the truth.  The torque and RPM are governed by the field, and 
for all practical, efficient 
motors, that is limited by the product of how many turns of wire you have 
times the current in 
each wire.  The wire size is determined by the voltage drop at the 
operating temperature, which 
depends on how much current you can pass through the wire.  The fastest 
way to reduce 
mass and size is to reduce air-gaps between the armature and the field 
windings, but that 
depends on bearings and temperature ranges.  42 V will happen, but it 
isn't a fantasia.  It will 
happen mainly to reduce the size/mass of the wiring harness going to each 
device, and for the 
starter/alternator packages.  I know this goes against the popular press.  
Sorry.

Larry Elie
Ford Scientific Research


Dwight L. Hazen, Indiana University, UITS 
Bloomington, In. 47408-7378 812-855-5367 hazen indiana edu
http://php.ucs.indiana.edu/~hazen/ ax25 wb9tlh k9iu in noam


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Meier [SMTP:ChrisM pptvision com]
> Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 1:48 PM
> To:   'darrylmcmahon igs net'; 'elec-trak cosmos5 phy tufts edu'
> Subject:      (ET) RE: EVLN(42v Li-ion ICE batt, mild hybrids: as an EV
> for short di stances)
> 
> And we might have to add another 6v block to our Electraks to
> jump start ICEv's!  Then upgrade the headlights to 42v units...
> etc
> 
> Anyone have one of those driver enclosures for the Electrak?
> Pretty soon you'll be able to add a 42v air conditioning unit.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:       darrylmcmahon igs net [SMTP:darrylmcmahon igs net]
> > Sent:       Sunday, May 23, 1999 10:44 PM
> > To: ev listproc sjsu edu
> > Subject:    Re: EVLN(42v Li-ion ICE batt, mild hybrids: as an EV for
> > short distances)
> > 
> > Bruce posted:
> > <snip>
> > > Electricity to take on bigger role in autos 42-volt systems offer
> > more
> > > power for automated features May 20, 1999  BY WILLIAM DIEM SPECIAL
> > TO THE
> > > http://www.freep.com DETROIT FREE PRESS
> > > 
> > > PARIS -- The first cars with 42-volt electrical systems, not 12,
> > could
> > > reach showrooms early in the next decade.  Under the hood, wholesale
> > > changes would take place. 
> > Once again, the major automakers are learning what the EV 
> > industry knew 80 years ago.  Just tonight I was looking at a 
> > schematic for a 1915 Milburn, and it used a 40-volt accessory 
> > system - pack voltage.
> > 
> > So the automakers are excited about getting rid of fan belts and 
> > replacing them with small motors and powering valve actuators 
> > electrically, because at 42 volts they can do it, and it will be more 
> > efficient.  Be even more efficient if they didn't need a water pump, 
> > radiator fan, fuel pump, and valve actuators to be powered in the 
> > first place. (Oops, my bias is showing.)  On the up side, sounds 
> > like a great source for air conditioning systems that should be easy 
> > to retrofit onto our existing EVs.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Darryl McMahon          48 Tarquin Crescent,
> >  It's your planet.      Nepean, Ontario K2H 8J8
> >  If you won't look      Voice: (613)828-0805
> >  after it, who will?    Fax:   (613)828-3199
> >                         http://www.igs.net/~darrylmcmahon