Re: (ET) RE: EVLN(42v Li-ion ICE batt, mild hybrids: as an EV forshort di stances)

["Max Hall" <maxo iname com>]

Along this discussion's lines...

For most EVs, the "traction pack" (which would be the 36v sextet in our
Electraks) is separate from a 12v utility battery OR dc-to-dc converter for
taking 12v EVENLY off of the traction pack) for running headlights, radio,
clock, electic antenna, wipers, etc.)

In general, the battery-savvy say that tapping off of the traction pack is
bad for the life of the batteries. I am happy to notice that there are many
battery savvy among us...

-Max Hall
-maxo iname com
-Plywood Guy, Scooters, and what-all: http://www.maxmatic.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Elie <lelie ford com>
To: 'Chris Meier' <ChrisM pptvision com>; 'darrylmcmahon igs net'
<darrylmcmahon igs net>; 'elec-trak cosmos5 phy tufts edu'
<elec-trak cosmos5 phy tufts edu>; 'Hazen, Dwight L' <hazen indiana edu>
Cc: 'amirza indiana edu' <amirza indiana edu>; 'jnaab indiana edu'
<jnaab indiana edu>; 'plaue net66 com' <plaue net66 com>
Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 4:43 PM
Subject: RE: (ET) RE: EVLN(42v Li-ion ICE batt, mild hybrids: as an EV
forshort di stances)


>Dwight wrote;
>
>----------
>From: Hazen, Dwight L[SMTP:hazen indiana edu]
>Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 2:42 PM
>To: 'Chris Meier'; 'darrylmcmahon igs net';
'elec-trak cosmos5 phy tufts edu'
>Cc: 'jnaab indiana edu'; 'plaue net66 com'; 'amirza indiana edu'
>Subject: RE: (ET) RE: EVLN(42v Li-ion ICE batt, mild hybrids: as an EV
forshort di stances)
>
>;I think the Headlights are tapped to the battery pack at the 12 volt
level.
>
>They are.  The problem is that this causes two batteries to be lower than
others,
>which cuts the 'range' (cutting time) for the tractor.
>
>;The electric winch ( Delco, car wiper motor) is six volts connected to 
>one
>;six volt battery. I am looking to replace the headlights with some sealed
>
>Nope, it is 18v, connected to 3 batteries.
>
>;beam units. They now make rectangular replacement units for cars that
should
>;fit.
>
>;Air Conditioning for the ElecTrak with the snow cab.. What a concept!
>
>;   Dwight.
>
>
>I have to watch it what I say here.  I know people on the 42V committee 
>(it
is multi-company)
>and others testing the devices.  Yes, there will be 42V/12V systems soon,
and probably
>42V systems later.  Yes, the wires to the devices will be smaller/lighter
and will save some
>weight.  Now I will part the waves from what is normally believed; a 42
volt motor to drive a
>given torque at a given RPM will be essentially the same size and weight 
>as
a 12 volt motor
>that drives the same torque and RPM.  Yes, the wires ARE smaller, but 
>there
are more of
>them to get the new voltage drop.  The packing efficiency drops with the
smaller wire, and
>the package for the 'new' device is essentially the same.  That is not the
official Ford line,
>but it is the truth.  The torque and RPM are governed by the field, and 
>for
all practical, efficient
>motors, that is limited by the product of how many turns of wire you have
times the current in
>each wire.  The wire size is determined by the voltage drop at the
operating temperature, which
>depends on how much current you can pass through the wire.  The fastest 
>way
to reduce
>mass and size is to reduce air-gaps between the armature and the field
windings, but that
>depends on bearings and temperature ranges.  42 V will happen, but it 
>isn't
a fantasia.  It will
>happen mainly to reduce the size/mass of the wiring harness going to each
device, and for the
>starter/alternator packages.  I know this goes against the popular press.
Sorry.
>
>Larry Elie
>Ford Scientific Research
>
>
>Dwight L. Hazen, Indiana University, UITS
>Bloomington, In. 47408-7378 812-855-5367 hazen indiana edu
>http://php.ucs.indiana.edu/~hazen/ ax25 wb9tlh k9iu in noam
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Meier [SMTP:ChrisM pptvision com]
>> Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 1:48 PM
>> To: 'darrylmcmahon igs net'; 'elec-trak cosmos5 phy tufts edu'
>> Subject: (ET) RE: EVLN(42v Li-ion ICE batt, mild hybrids: as an EV
>> for short di stances)
>>
>> And we might have to add another 6v block to our Electraks to
>> jump start ICEv's!  Then upgrade the headlights to 42v units...
>> etc
>>
>> Anyone have one of those driver enclosures for the Electrak?
>> Pretty soon you'll be able to add a 42v air conditioning unit.
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: darrylmcmahon igs net [SMTP:darrylmcmahon igs net]
>> > Sent: Sunday, May 23, 1999 10:44 PM
>> > To: ev listproc sjsu edu
>> > Subject: Re: EVLN(42v Li-ion ICE batt, mild hybrids: as an EV for
>> > short distances)
>> >
>> > Bruce posted:
>> > <snip>
>> > > Electricity to take on bigger role in autos 42-volt systems offer
>> > more
>> > > power for automated features May 20, 1999  BY WILLIAM DIEM SPECIAL
>> > TO THE
>> > > http://www.freep.com DETROIT FREE PRESS
>> > >
>> > > PARIS -- The first cars with 42-volt electrical systems, not 12,
>> > could
>> > > reach showrooms early in the next decade.  Under the hood, wholesale
>> > > changes would take place.
>> > Once again, the major automakers are learning what the EV
>> > industry knew 80 years ago.  Just tonight I was looking at a
>> > schematic for a 1915 Milburn, and it used a 40-volt accessory
>> > system - pack voltage.
>> >
>> > So the automakers are excited about getting rid of fan belts and
>> > replacing them with small motors and powering valve actuators
>> > electrically, because at 42 volts they can do it, and it will be more
>> > efficient.  Be even more efficient if they didn't need a water pump,
>> > radiator fan, fuel pump, and valve actuators to be powered in the
>> > first place. (Oops, my bias is showing.)  On the up side, sounds
>> > like a great source for air conditioning systems that should be easy
>> > to retrofit onto our existing EVs.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Darryl McMahon          48 Tarquin Crescent,
>> >  It's your planet.      Nepean, Ontario K2H 8J8
>> >  If you won't look      Voice: (613)828-0805
>> >  after it, who will?    Fax:   (613)828-3199
>> >                         http://www.igs.net/~darrylmcmahon
>