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Re: (ET) ok, not the fusible link
That don't explain the smoke. Or why the fuse blew in the first place
with smoke showing. Whatever it was (maybe even a bug got across that
36V and fried) could happen again. YES, fuses go by themselves from
internal fatigue but not with any smoke.
Hate it when a trouble fixes itself.
Dave
Weymouth MA
On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:28:01 -0400 (EDT) Michael S Briggs
<msbriggs alberti unh edu> writes:
>
> Ok, update on this - I seem to have it working now. I checked CB-1
> this
> morning, and it was fine (although it may have tripped and had to
> cool
> down - how long does it normally take for CB-1 to cool down and
> close
> again?). Checked the power disconnect, and it's fine.
> I put a new inline fuse holder in where the control fuse
> goes on
> the fuse block, with a new fuse. I also checked the main power
> switch, and
> it's fine. So, being stumped about why it stopped working, I decided
> to
> just give her another try since I had replaced that bad fuse block
> terminal with a new inline fuse - and she works!
> I'll still go through again and do some more inspecting for
> melting insulation on wires, that could have caused the smoke, but
> as of
> now, it seems like the only problem was the blown control fuse,
> which then
> blew that part of the fuse block (so just replacing the fuse didn't
> get it
> working). CB-1 *may* have been tripped also though, I'm not sure.
>
> Thanks for your help guys,
> Mike
>
> --
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Michael S. Briggs
> UNH Physics Department
> (603) 862-2828
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Sun, 30 Jul 2006, David C Robie wrote:
>
> > Open to high currents does not mean 'open to the extreme low
> current that
> > a power metr takes. A carbon track or rust across an open is
> enough to
> > move a voltmeter. Especially as it reads low I would suspect
> that. Look
> > carefully with good light to see if any connection (ends of both
> big and
> > small wires) show signs of getting hot. This would also make
> smoke from
> > burned insulation right at the wire terminal.
> >
> > Dave
> > Weymouth MA
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 22:08:49 -0400 (EDT) Michael S Briggs
> > <msbriggs alberti unh edu> writes:
> >>
> >> RJ,
> >> Alrighty, will do (tomorrow morning). It will be my first
> >> time
> >> doing anything on the drive motor - haven't touched it yet.
> >> Kind of funny - based on the schematics, I figured it
> could
> >> be
> >> CB-1 - but I thought that was the thermal breaker near the fuse
> >> panel. :)
> >> It may have failed - but it's seeming now like it should
> be
> >>
> >> something else, since after soldering that control fuse holder, I
> am
> >>
> >> seeing some voltage on the fuel gauge (doesn't seem to be reading
> >> accurately though), and from the schematic, it looks like the fuel
> >> gauge
> >> shouldn't read anything if CB-1 is open. Also, the PTO outlet
> isn't
> >> working, and CB-1 isn't on that circuit (at least it looks that
> way
> >> from
> >> the schematic).
> >> On the fuse holder - is there any way to fix the old one,
> >> or
> >> should the whole thing be replaced? So far, it's seemed like my
> >> attempt at
> >> soldering the connection there hasn't been very effective.
> >> Hm, just realized that I haven't tried running the lift
> >> motor
> >> since it died - I'm assuming it doesn't work, but knowing for sure
> >> might
> >> help isolate the problem. I'll try that in the morning too.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Michael S. Briggs
> >> UNH Physics Department
> >> (603) 862-2828
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006, RJ Kanary wrote:
> >>
> >>> Knowing now that you have an AA model..................<VBG>,
> I
> >> can tell
> >>> you that the early fuse holders were problematic. What ever fault
> >> cause the
> >>> fuse to open could well have finished off the holder as well.
> >>> Remember that bad high current connection that I suspected
> >> that you may
> >>> have, due to the motorboating and chattering that you had ? I
> >> think that you
> >>> just may find it now. Take a look at CB-1, that large Klixon®
> >> thermal limiter
> >>> on the traction motor case . If it has failed open, nothing would
> >> power up,
> >>> including the "Fuel Gauge".
> >>> Fix the fuse holder, investigate CB-1, and report back
> with
> >> your
> >>> findings. :)
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael S Briggs"
> >>> <msbriggs alberti unh edu>
> >>> To: "RJ Kanary" <rjkanary nauticom net>
> >>> Cc: <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> >>> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:08 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: (ET) ok, not the fusible link
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> RJ,
> >>>> Mine's an AA.
> >>>> An update on what I've looked over:
> >>>> Since the fuel gauge wasn't showing anything, I decided to try
> >> tracking
> >>>> the path around it to see where the path was broken. From the
> >> positive end
> >>>> of the pack to the fuel gauge was fine, the problem was on the
> >> end from the
> >>>> - end of the pack to the fuel gauge. The path was fine to the
> >> fuse holder,
> >>>> and fine from the fuel gauge to the side of the fuse holder
> >> closest to it.
> >>>> So, that would seem to indicate blown fuse - but the fuse was
> >> fine. What I
> >>>> ended up finding was that with the fuse in the fuse holder, it
> >> had no
> >>>> connection to the screw terminal where the wires connect.
> >>>> I tried just cleaning everything out well, filing off any
> >> possible rust,
> >>>> and then sprayed it down with De-Oxit cleaner, but still
> nothing.
> >>>> The rivet connection where the fuse holder is connected to the
> >> plate that
> >>>> the screw is on (where the wires connect) was loose and wobbly,
> >> apparently
> >>>> not making a good connection. The other fuse holders looked nice
> >> and tight
> >>>> at that rivet, but not this one - so I figured maybe I had
> >> somehow weakened
> >>>> the rivet when I pulled out the blown fuse to replace it.
> >>>> So, I figured I'd try soldering that connection to make a
> better
> >> contact
> >>>> between the fuse holder and the screwed in connections. That may
> >> not have
> >>>> been a great idea (that block with the fuse holders connected
> >> doesn't seem
> >>>> to like the heat), but it did at least get it where now when I
> >> engage the
> >>>> power disconnect, I do get a reading on the fuel meter gauge -
> >> but it was
> >>>> much lower than it should have been, and still nothing works -
> no
> >> drive
> >>>> motor, no PTO, etc..
> >>>> So, for the time being I pushed the tractor back into the
> garage
> >> (man that
> >>>> thing is heavy - especially when you're pushing it up a hill).
> >> Got a good
> >>>> workout though. :)
> >>>> It may just be that the fuel gauge is reading low due to some
> >> additional
> >>>> resistance somewhere in the path (perhaps at the fuse holder),
> >> but I'm also
> >>>> suspicious that the pack may have been slowly discharging
> through
> >> some
> >>>> short somewhere - so I disconnected the negative-most battery
> >> terminal.
> >>>> Apparently something other than just the fuse did blow, I just
> >> need to
> >>>> figure out what. What could cause this symptom of no power to
> >> anything? The
> >>>> fuel gauge meter was showing nothing also, until I tried
> >> soldering that
> >>>> fuse holder connection - but perhaps I shouldn't have done that.
> >> When I
> >>>> then decided to check the resistance between the fuses
> themselves
> >> and the
> >>>> wires connected to the terminals on the fuseholders for the
> other
> >> two
> >>>> fuses, they also seem to have no connection (between the fuse
> and
> >> the
> >>>> screws on the fuse block) - don't know if they were like that
> >> initially, if
> >>>> they're supposed to be that way, or if I screwed something up
> >> when
> >>>> soldering that one fuse block.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Mike
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> Michael S. Briggs
> >>>> UNH Physics Department
> >>>> (603) 862-2828
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sat, 29 Jul 2006, RJ Kanary wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Once again, I will ask what flavor of E-15 you have. Since
> >> they have
> >>>>> three different wiring configurations, knowing which revision
> >> yours is,
> >>>>> {AA, BA and so on.} would help me help you. The pertinent
> >> information is
> >>>>> on the data plate under the hood.
> >>>>> Thanks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael S Briggs"
> >>>>> <msbriggs alberti unh edu>
> >>>>> To: <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 4:08 PM
> >>>>> Subject: (ET) ok, not the fusible link
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Found a post from Wombat in the archives saying where the
> >> fusible link is
> >>>>>> - just a wire going across two terminals on the Power
> >> Disconnect. Ok, so
> >>>>>> the fusible link is fine, so it's apparnetly something else.
> >>>>>> Based on the wisps of smoke that came up around the speed
> >> lever,
> >>>>>> it seems reasonable to suspect something underneath it may
> have
> >> blown.
> >>>>>> There's that big ol relay down underneath there - but that's
> >> just the PTO
> >>>>>> contactor. Unless it's failure mode is creating a short across
> >> the
> >>>>>> batteries, I can't see that being the problem, since it's not
> >> just the
> >>>>>> PTO
> >>>>>> that's not working - nothing is.
> >>>>>> I suppose the smoke could have come from something in the
> >> speed
> >>>>>> control itself, but that shouldn't cause the no power at all
> >> problem (at
> >>>>>> least from looking at the schematics, I don't think it
> should).
> >>>>>> From looking at the Troubleshooting sketch schematic for the
> >> E-15
> >>>>>> in the manual, and just looking at what might result in the
> >> fuel level
> >>>>>> gauge not seeing squat, the only things between the fuel level
> >> gauge and
> >>>>>> the batteries (so the only things that keep it from reading
> >> batt voltage)
> >>>>>> are:
> >>>>>> 1. Power Use gauge - checked it with the multimeter, it's
> fine.
> >>>>>> 2. 20 Amp fuse 3 - it blew initially, I replaced it with 20
> amp
> >> light
> >>>>>> fuse
> >>>>>> for the moment.
> >>>>>> 3. Wire 13 goes from that fuse to the PTO coil (is this the
> PTO
> >>
> >>>>>> contactor?
> >>>>>> Or some other coil?), but you don't seem to need to have a
> >> connection
> >>>>>> THROUGH the coil for the fuel gauge, since line 13 comes off
> of
> >> that same
> >>>>>> connection point on the terminal, and continues to the fuel
> >> gauge - on
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> negative side of it.
> >>>>>> 4. Line 5 comes off the + side of the fuel gauge, goes to fuse
> >> 2 (the
> >>>>>> lift
> >>>>>> fuse, but doesn't go through it, just connects to one end of
> >> it, and
> >>>>>> continues on from that same connection point), continues to
> the
> >> L
> >>>>>> contactor, but not through it, and to circuit breaker 1. Hm,
> >> haven't
> >>>>>> checked that yet - isn't that the main circuit breaker on the
> >> back of the
> >>>>>> panel that has the forward/reverse relay and such on it? I
> >> pressed it to
> >>>>>> reset in case it was the issue, but it seemed to be fine. I'll
> >> check
> >>>>>> again
> >>>>>> in a minute just in case.
> >>>>>> 5. Power Disconnect, which presumably doesn't itself fail in
> >> any way -
> >>>>>> I'll check though.
> >>>>>> 6. Fusible link - fine.
> >>>>>> 7. And then to the + side of the pack.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So, presumably something in there is failed. I'll head back
> out
> >> with my
> >>>>>> multimeter and trace the line all around.
> >>>>>> This is kinda fun, albeit somewhat frustrating, since I had
> >> other
> >>>>>> things I wanted to do.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mike
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> Michael S. Briggs
> >>>>>> UNH Physics Department
> >>>>>> (603) 862-2828
> >>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Elec-trak mailing list
> >>>>>> Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> >>>>>> https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >