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Re: (ET) ET new technology and abandening the ICE
I have to say I partly agree with both Chris and Rod !
I like simplicity - as far as the fact that I can see the smoked diode on
the control board, or the burned wire or relay contacts, or corroded pins
in
the connectors - and I can probably hack together a repair - to get by in
an
emergency.
It is hard to see inside the sealed Alltrax controller, if something goes
wrong.
I have been an electronics tech for over 20 years, designed circuit boards,
and programmed a few microcontrollers to control some low power motors,
etc.
Short of using acid/dremel tool to remove the potting compound, and then
reverse-engineering the control circuit (and software) inside the
controller
(if the software is not code-protected to prevent reading it) - I would be
as stuck as Chris said, if the controller failed.
Having said that, I agree as much or more with Rod: I am really tired of
messing with all the corroded cicuit boards, contactors, relays,
connectors, switches and wires between the 3 still-assembled tractors I
own.
I dream of installing the Alltrax Controller - and having extreme
reliability - except for really simple maintenance like: lubrication, tire
pressure, and battery water - for the next 10 years.
I might keep the second E-20, in case I have that urge to kill the weekend
cutting apart old contactors or relays, and swapping contacts, etc ! :>)
Mostly, this past winter, I just wanted to snowblow my driveway (my
shoulder
still hurts from all the shoveling).
It was usually too miserable outside to want to troubleshoot all the
possible problems with all the 30 year old parts.
I know it was most likely only 1 single dead part - that cost less than $5
to replace (or I probably even had a spare !).
The question was always - WHICH part is bad this time?
I guess I could go out and buy all new contactors, relays, wire, connectors
& pins, and circuit boards and switches, etc. I think the price of all the
parts might be less than the Alltrax.
BUT, have any of you guys ever sat down and stripped ALL the wire, and
crimped all the pins & terminals (& usually soldered them also, to reduce
corrosion), and fitted all the connectors to rebuild a wiring harness ?
Something tells me I could install the Alltrax in a couple hours.
Rebuilding the original wiring harness could take days.
Then, connecting to all the various relays & contactors & etc takes a bit
more time . . .
Does Bill Gunn sell the wiring harnesses?
Anyone besides Steve Richardson complete the conversion to AllTrax
controller yet?
Anyone convert an E-20?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zach" <czach computer org>
To: "Rod Hower" <rodhower ameritech net>
Cc: "Elec-trak list" <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: (ET) ET new technology and abandening the ICE
> Mmm... I'm over 30 years old. And still going pretty well.
>
> I'm not going to blast the Alltrax controller; it's probably a great
> product. I just don't see the reasoning behind going with a more complex
> solution when a simpler one can do the job.
>
> Then again my 68 911L Porsche has carburators. Which do require a little
> bit of work to keep running, happy, drop of oil, etc. But I will say
> this: When I was on the highway and my accel cable broke I simply turned
> the idle screws up to 4,000 RPM and drove the car home.
>
> When my 95 Dodge Caravan with it's computer controlled 3.0L engine
> decided it didn't want to run anymore I was dead as a doornail. There is
> no way you can bypass the MPS, or work around a shot computer. You're
> stuck on the side of the road.
>
> Yes, carbs have their downside (less efficient, more pollution) but the
> computer that they rely on is in your noggin. Same for the E20. When it
> comes to technology I like my products to be as dumb as a box of hammers.
>
> Simpler to fix in a pinch. Like when it's snowing.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Rod Hower wrote:
>
> > Chris,
> > The GE control is over 30 years old.
> > Well designed but not the best upgrade for
> > this machine. I think the Alltrax control offers
> > simplicity and better operation for people that
> > can't deal with failing relays and SCR's that
> > are over 30 years old. I'll admitt that my mower
> > solution is not for everybody, in fact it's probably
> > only for me since I have access to free parts to
> > perform this operation. However, the Alltrax control
> > offers many users a simple and effective replacement
> > for
> > an antiquated control.
> > Rod.
> > --- Chris Zach <czach computer org> wrote:
> >
> >> > You need an Alltrax control!
> >>
> >>I need an Alltrax controller like I need a hole in
> >>my head.
> >>
> >>Seriously: The Elec-Trak controller is the model of
> >>simplicity and
> >>logic. I have seven speeds times four gears; that's
> >>enough to get me the
> >>speed control I need. I have regen and braking for
> >>excellent overall
> >>speed control. And I have a little circuit that
> >>measures the armature
> >>current and shuts down the field weakening circuit
> >>automagically when I
> >>overload the motor.
> >>
> >>And cruise control with a little light. What more
> >>can I need?
> >>
> >>This is not a car, where you want a wide amount of
> >>speed settings. I
> >>have 28 possibilties between 0 and 7 miles per hour.
> >>That's not bad. And
> >>besides, I usually use this thing for constant speed
> >>applications like
> >>mowing the lawn or blowing snow. Having a controller
> >>that never gives me
> >>the same speed twice would be annoying.
> >>
> >>There might be a point in the fact the the E15's
> >>controller is a lot
> >>more parsnickety. This appears to be the case; it's
> >>logic board tries to
> >>do a lot of things that the inherent nature of
> >>having contactors does
> >>for the E-20 (there are no timing circuits on the
> >>E20 for example; the
> >>contactors provide the time for you). And the E20
> >>reverses the motor the
> >>*right* way: By reversing the armature with
> >>contactors as opposed to the
> >>field with relay points. The E15 was a cheaper
> >>design, but one can fix
> >>that too with simple discrete components.
> >>
> >>So for $5.00 for four diodes from Radio Shack my
> >>controller is fixed.
> >>And will probably last for another 30 years. At
> >>which time I'll simply
> >>replace the components again instead of scratching
> >>my head looking at a
> >>solid-state thingie. I'm sure Radio space shack will
> >>sell diodes in 2034.
> >>
> >>Probably the only remaining weak link is the relays.
> >>And to be honest
> >>when they die I could just build a 36 volt to 24
> >>volt power controller
> >>for $5.00 and replace the relays with modern 24 volt
> >>ones. Sealed too.
> >>$25.00 and that's all done for the next 30 years.
> >>
> >>There's a place for everything. A contactor
> >>controller doesn't really
> >>belong on a car (like the Renault electrics) and a
> >>digital control
> >>doesn't really belong on a lawn tractor.
> >>
> >>As for using the tractor: My E20 is my main mowing
> >>and plowing machine.
> >>The simpler the better. BLDC mower motors are nice,
> >>but it adds
> >>complexity when the omputer blows out.
> >>
> >>Chris Zach
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Rod Hower wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I plan on ordering one tomorrow.
> >>>I know there are diehards on the list that prefer
> >>>to keep original equipment, but I will upgrade
> >>
> >>mine
> >>
> >>>to the latest technology. Like others on the list
> >>>I plan on using this tractor as a practical
> >>
> >>machine
> >>
> >>>and don't care much about keeping it original.
> >>>I would have converted an ICE machine to electric,
> >>>but it's much easier to get an Elec Trak going,
> >>
> >>even
> >>
> >>>if it is 30+ years old. My mower deck will use 3
> >>
> >>BLDC
> >>
> >>>motors from work with lots of 'engineering' to
> >>
> >>connect
> >>
> >>>the mower blade. I would have used the original
> >>
> >>PMDC
> >>
> >>>mower motors, but the blade and mounting hardware
> >>
> >>were
> >>
> >>>in very bad shape and required me to dismember the
> >>>parts.
> >>>I'll post pictures when the job is finished.
> >>>Lots of work, but worth the effort since I don't
> >>
> >>have
> >>
> >>>to listen to the gas engine.
> >>>Rod
> >>>--- Chris Zach <czach computer org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Ok, the breadboard is fixed. Basically what I did
> >>>>was replace all four
> >>>>of the diodes with good old fashioned 3amp diodes
> >>>
> >>>>from Radio Shack. The
> >>>
> >>>>larger diodes have a forward voltage drop of .5
> >>>>volts as opposed to 1.0
> >>>>volts for the smaller ones. So I took a drill,
> >>>>enlarged the holes in the
> >>>>PCB slightly, and soldered in the new diodes.
> >>>>
> >>>>Put it back in; works like a champ. As a bonus,
> >>>>speeds 6 and 7 now come
> >>>>online. Now if I could just get a voltmeter that
> >>>>*works* and a bulb for
> >>>>the cruise control switch I would be 100% set for
> >>>>the summer.
> >>>>
> >>>>Meantime I will put in an order for 22 ohm
> >>
> >>resistors
> >>
> >>>>and the other
> >>>>oddball types and replace everything in the fall.
> >>>>
> >>>>Chris
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
> >>>>Elec-trak mailing list
> >>>>Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> > https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> >
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>
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> >
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
>
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