Re: (ET) New Electrics

["Max Hall" <maxo iname com>]

I think William is right! All good points! The logic, the economics, all
sound. That's why I drive an ET, that's what drives my investents and
purchase calculations. In fact, I bet a lot of the people on this list are
ready to look 10, even 20, even 30 years down the... Hey, wait a sec, could
it be that the members of this list *are not typical consumers*? (Clutches
chest, falls off chair.)

It's not that you aren't right, but it has next to nothing to do with being
right. The lifetime costs of a grid-tie PV system are beyond the
comprehension, let alone planning horizon, of any but the people who think,
and consequently care, about this stuff.

I'll never give up spreading the good word, and I'll never stop doing as
Bucky Fuller first put it: "think global, act local." But even I won't 
stick
it to myself too hard, economically, to do the right thing for the planet.
(Have you guys ever heard the term "conspicuous conservation"? That's some
good stuff!)

But I've been around enough to know that reality is subjective and
malleable, and most people prefer a simpler reality, one with as little
guilt, uncertainty and foreboding as they can shape.

Indeed, to be effective in steering the future you have to recognize the
simplicity of our collective behavior.

That's why you TAX GAS. (Or charge at the pump for security in the oil
producing parts of the globe, yes, John, and other costs.) Make it hurt a
little to burn hydrocarbons frivolously. Bang done.

-maxo
who better get back to work



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "William Korthof" <wkorthof earthlink net>
To: "John B Reinhard" <reinharj frontiernet net>;
<elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: (ET) New Electrics


> I feel a need to comment:
>
> >Since Home Power Magazine has analyzed the cost of PhotoVoltaic off-grid
> >power systems (PV cells, batteries, control system, and inverter) to be
> >about 65 cents per KWh, I think at-the-pump cost of gasoline will have 
> >to
> >really jump before PV becomes cost effective.  If oil costs jump, then
>
> The lifetime cost of a *grid-tie* PV system today is much lower than 
> that.
> My company installs typical grid-tie PV systems for $7-$8/watt AC. Here
> in CA, we typically see 1800-2000 kWh/year per kW of solar installation.
> Almost everywhere in the country, the number is over 1000 kWh/year.
> The performance life of the panels is guaranteed for 25 years, and
> expected much longer; at least 30 years.
>
> So.... ($7000/kw) / (1900 kWh/year * 30 years) = $0.122 per kWh.
> That's close to the national average residential electric price.
>
> That doesn't include rebates, tax credits, finance costs, depreciation
> benefits, or inflation. And I assume net metering on the retail side
> of the meter (most states now allow it this way). But anyway.
>
> My RAV4 EV uses 0.4 kWh AC/mile, so solar electricity costs under
> 5 cents per mile.
>
> The gas RAV4 gets 25 mpg. Gasoline at $1.25/gallon would already
> be more expensive than solar electric power in the RAV4 EV. I haven't
> been to a gas station since... well... a while. But I think the prices 
> are
> around $2/gal these days here on the left coast.
> Fuel costs for an ET offer a comparable advantage over gas.
>
> /wk
>
>
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