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(ET) E-20 for sale/trade: A Great Deal to be had



Spring is coming and I've got to get rid of some of my projects.  I have a 
Westinghouse E-30 in good (non-major rusted) condition that I've got to 
move out of my shop.  It comes without batteries but was told by the 
previous owner was running when parked in their garage and left for two 
years killing the batteries.  I know it will need a new steering wheel 
shaft with lower pinion gear as this one looks like it had the teeth weld 
repaired and steering is herky-jerky.  Tires, motor, trannie, and 
sheetmetal are in good condition.  Controller circuit condition unknown 
but expected OK.  The front lift has replaced the webbing with a 
galvanized cable. Does not have any accessories... just the tractor. Seat 
is in good condition (no tears).  Keys/dash gages, switches all there as 
well as quite a few spare parts, solinoids, brackets, etc.  I'm posting 
this here because I know it will go to a good home.  All I'm looking for 
is either $200 cash or a cash/trade for a working electrak welder
and/or cultivator accessory or a robust mini bike (rolling chassis)(engine 
not important as I plan on going electric).  The tractor is located in 
Charlestown, RI and will have to be picked up.  I can deliver a short 
distance if compensated for travel expenses.  If interested contact me off 
line at kleinrw npt nuwc navy mil

Bob Klein (with too many projects!)

-----Original Message-----
From: elec-trak-request cosmos phy tufts edu
[mailto:elec-trak-request cosmos phy tufts edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:44 AM
To: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
Subject: Elec-trak Digest, Vol 2, Issue 57


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Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  motor on E12S... (Bob Murcek)
   2. Re:  batteries and charging (David Roden (Akron OH USA))
   3. Re:  motor on E12S... (steves)
   4. Re:  motor on E12S... (Christopher Zach)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:17:03 -0500
From: "Bob Murcek" <rmurcek geisinger edu>
Subject: Re: (ET) motor on E12S...
To: <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
Message-ID: <s02b52ab 012 GHSGWIANW2 GEISINGER EDU>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Just a clarification: The Alltrax controller may actually reverse the 
armature current to reverse, which would be fine, you'd just always leave 
the field energized in the forward polarity.

>>> Dave & Debbie Barden <daveb seanet com> 2/12/2004 7:10:31 AM >>>
Thanks.  It is looking more and more like the Alltrac controller will work 
with 
the E12S motor.  The E12 does use field switching and my machine continues 
to 
suffer welded contacts and blown fuses whenever the motor is stopped to 
change 
directions and the field collapses sending a surge of current back up the 
line, 
thus my concern with the field losing current.  However I understand from 
Steve 
Richardson that their controller does monitor have over current 
protection.  I 
am verifying also with him that the controller will switch the field for 
forward reverse.  

thanks again for all your responses and increasing my understanding of 
motors.

dave
seattle

>       The field current requirements for the motors in question is for 
> all
> intents and purposes identical. In all the twenty some years that I have
> operated either the late model  I-5 , or the earlier model eight speed 
> E-20,
> I have yet to encounter a situation where field voltage was lost.
>      Since I do not have any information on the solid state controller 
> you
> are planning on utilizing, I can't offer an opinion on whether or not it
> offers armature overcurrent protection.
>      I do feel that the chances of a loss of field incident are slight. 
> Few
> people ask their tractors to do what I ask of mine. If anyone should 
> have a
> meltdown, it should be me.
>    If your tractor uses field switching for reversing, instead of 
> armature
> reversing, I would recommend changing it over. It's not that bad of a 
> job,
> especially if you have the Manual, and an organ donor tractor.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dave & Debbie Barden" <daveb seanet com>
> To: <rjkanary nauticom net>; <ssawtelle fcc net>;
> <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 10:18 AM
> Subject: Re: (ET) motor on E12S...
> 
> 
> > not being too electronically literate I need some help getting from A 
> > to
> C, A
> > being my motor has a shunt which supplies the field.  To get to C I 
> > have
> to be
> > sure that the sep-X controller will work with that kind of field.  One 
> > of
> > Richardson's emails talked about their needing to modify the 
> > controller to
> work
> > with small current of the E15's field windings 3 amps instead of 30 I
> think he
> > said.  Judging from the small wires going to the field of the E12S 
> > motor
> and
> > the fact that it uses a shunt I would guess that the current would be
> pretty
> > low as well???  And if steve is correct that the E12S uses an E15 like
> motor it
> > should work.  What I am really worried about is what will happen if my
> field
> > loses current (blown fuse or fried relay) will the armature still be
> getting
> > current from the controller???
> >
> > thanks,
> > dave
> >
> >
> > >     The only wound field traction motor that does not possess the 
> > > extra
> > > winding is the one used in the E-12 CA through HA models . This 
> > > category
> > > includes the E-12 M.
> > >
> > >        Note that in the Homeowner's Service Manual, the E-12 S  
> > > armature
> > > terminals are identified as A1 and S2, indicating the presence of a
> 'shunt'
> > > winding.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "steves" <ssawtelle fcc net>
> > > To: <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 5:07 PM
> > > Subject: Re: (ET) motor on E12S...
> > >
> > >
> > > > As I understand it - The E12S is basically an E12 with an E15 
> > > > motor.
> The
> > > > wiring is different than an E12.  I would think, based on this, it
> would
> > > > work.  Someone correct if I'm wrong...
> > > >
> > > > - SteveS
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: "Dave & Debbie Barden" <daveb seanet com>
> > > > To: <plitch attglobal net>; <thumphrey mynra com>; <>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 8:38 AM
> > > > Subject: (ET) motor on E12S...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I would really like to get the new Alltrax controller for my 
> > > > > E12S.
> But
> > > > the
> > > > > discussions on this list have all centered around the E15 and 
> > > > > E20.
> My
> > > > ultimte
> > > > > question is will the alltrax work with the E12S  motor?  Also 
> > > > > what
> does
> > > > the S
> > > > > in E12S signify?  I thought I read that the E12S is a "compound"
> motor
> > > > > aka "shunt motor" right/wrong???
> > > > >
> > > > > Bottom line, will the sep-X controller work on an E12S?   
> > > > > thoughts??
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks,
> > > > > dave
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Elec-trak mailing list
> > > > > Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> > > > > https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Elec-trak mailing list
> > > > Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> > > > https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Elec-trak mailing list
> > > Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> > > https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 





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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:30:49 -0500
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <roden ald net>
Subject: Re: (ET) batteries and charging
To: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
Message-ID: <402B55D9.6739.AE113@localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 12 Feb 2004 at 7:08, jim donovan wrote:

>  it is my
> understanding that the charger that is on the
> elec-traks has an output that best serves the flooded
> batteries.  Is that correct?  

"Best serves" doesn't quite say it.  The GE charger will murder your 
expensive 
VRR batteries in a few months.


> What do you sealed/gel
> type guys use to charge your pack?

I use three 12 volt automatic (cycle-dropping type) chargers.  If I had 6 
volt 
modules instead of 12 volt, I might go to six 6-volt chargers.  

You really need to charge at the module level unless you get rid of the 
battery taps for the lift and lights.  The taps unbalance the pack 
something 
awful.  The GE charger deals with that by overcharging between one and 
four 
other batteries, in order to make sure the lift and/or light batteries 
have a 
full charge.  VRR batteries just can't take that amount of overcharge.  
(It's 
not really good for flooded batteries either, but they're sturdier in this 
regard.)

One of my long-term aims is to replace those battery taps with a DC:DC 
converter.


David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
    Advertising (n): the science of arresting the human
    intelligence for long enough to get money from it.

                      -- Stephen Leacock
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =      
   





------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:39:08 -0500
From: "steves" <ssawtelle fcc net>
Subject: Re: (ET) motor on E12S...
To: <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
Message-ID: <007f01c3f17e$5abf84e0$1a01a8c0@dhhm0y01>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

I'm remembering more about the E12S...

It is the same wiring as the E15 except it doesn't have the field weaking
circuit (the extra FWD speeds). It does reverse the field and that relay is
easy to fry. BTW I notice I don't have to be so gentle with FWD/REV with 
the
E20 (found out by accident). I still do seem to recall the E12S uses an E15
motor.

Let us know how the controller works! I have another E12S in sad shape - it
would be nice to simplify the wiring and get it running.

- SteveS


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave & Debbie Barden" <daveb seanet com>
To: <rjkanary nauticom net>; <ssawtelle fcc net>; <>; <daveb seanet com>
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 2:10 AM
Subject: Re: (ET) motor on E12S...


> Thanks.  It is looking more and more like the Alltrac controller will 
> work
with
> the E12S motor.  The E12 does use field switching and my machine 
> continues
to
> suffer welded contacts and blown fuses whenever the motor is stopped to
change
> directions and the field collapses sending a surge of current back up the
line,
> thus my concern with the field losing current.  However I understand from
Steve
> Richardson that their controller does monitor have over current
protection.  I
> am verifying also with him that the controller will switch the field for
> forward reverse.
>
> thanks again for all your responses and increasing my understanding of
motors.
>
> dave
> seattle
>
> >       The field current requirements for the motors in question is for
all
> > intents and purposes identical. In all the twenty some years that I 
> > have
> > operated either the late model  I-5 , or the earlier model eight speed
E-20,
> > I have yet to encounter a situation where field voltage was lost.
> >      Since I do not have any information on the solid state controller
you
> > are planning on utilizing, I can't offer an opinion on whether or not 
> > it
> > offers armature overcurrent protection.
> >      I do feel that the chances of a loss of field incident are slight.
Few
> > people ask their tractors to do what I ask of mine. If anyone should
have a
> > meltdown, it should be me.
> >    If your tractor uses field switching for reversing, instead of
armature
> > reversing, I would recommend changing it over. It's not that bad of a
job,
> > especially if you have the Manual, and an organ donor tractor.
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Dave & Debbie Barden" <daveb seanet com>
> > To: <rjkanary nauticom net>; <ssawtelle fcc net>;
> > <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 10:18 AM
> > Subject: Re: (ET) motor on E12S...
> >
> >
> > > not being too electronically literate I need some help getting from A
to
> > C, A
> > > being my motor has a shunt which supplies the field.  To get to C I
have
> > to be
> > > sure that the sep-X controller will work with that kind of field.  
> > > One
of
> > > Richardson's emails talked about their needing to modify the
controller to
> > work
> > > with small current of the E15's field windings 3 amps instead of 30 I
> > think he
> > > said.  Judging from the small wires going to the field of the E12S
motor
> > and
> > > the fact that it uses a shunt I would guess that the current would be
> > pretty
> > > low as well???  And if steve is correct that the E12S uses an E15 
> > > like
> > motor it
> > > should work.  What I am really worried about is what will happen if 
> > > my
> > field
> > > loses current (blown fuse or fried relay) will the armature still be
> > getting
> > > current from the controller???
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > > dave
> > >
> > >
> > > >     The only wound field traction motor that does not possess the
extra
> > > > winding is the one used in the E-12 CA through HA models . This
category
> > > > includes the E-12 M.
> > > >
> > > >        Note that in the Homeowner's Service Manual, the E-12 S
armature
> > > > terminals are identified as A1 and S2, indicating the presence of a
> > 'shunt'
> > > > winding.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: "steves" <ssawtelle fcc net>
> > > > To: <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 5:07 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: (ET) motor on E12S...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > As I understand it - The E12S is basically an E12 with an E15
motor.
> > The
> > > > > wiring is different than an E12.  I would think, based on this, 
> > > > > it
> > would
> > > > > work.  Someone correct if I'm wrong...
> > > > >
> > > > > - SteveS
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > > From: "Dave & Debbie Barden" <daveb seanet com>
> > > > > To: <plitch attglobal net>; <thumphrey mynra com>; <>
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 8:38 AM
> > > > > Subject: (ET) motor on E12S...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I would really like to get the new Alltrax controller for my
E12S.
> > But
> > > > > the
> > > > > > discussions on this list have all centered around the E15 and
E20.
> > My
> > > > > ultimte
> > > > > > question is will the alltrax work with the E12S  motor?  Also
what
> > does
> > > > > the S
> > > > > > in E12S signify?  I thought I read that the E12S is a 
> > > > > > "compound"
> > motor
> > > > > > aka "shunt motor" right/wrong???
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bottom line, will the sep-X controller work on an E12S?
thoughts??
> > > > > >
> > > > > > thanks,
> > > > > > dave
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Elec-trak mailing list
> > > > > > Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> > > > > > https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Elec-trak mailing list
> > > > > Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> > > > > https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Elec-trak mailing list
> > > > Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
> > > > https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>





------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:41:50 -0500
From: Christopher Zach <czach computer org>
Subject: Re: (ET) motor on E12S...
To: steves <ssawtelle fcc net>
Cc: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
Message-ID: <402B9EBE 5030104 computer org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Well, true. The E20 does use a set of nice big contactors as opposed to 
an itty-bitty relay.

Has anyone thought about replacing the relay with a set of contactors to 
reverse the field? I'm not saying duplicate the E20's system, but just 
use something a lot bigger than a relay point to switch the field 
polarity (and take the spikes)

Thoughts?
Chris


steves wrote:
> I'm remembering more about the E12S...
> 
> It is the same wiring as the E15 except it doesn't have the field weaking
> circuit (the extra FWD speeds). It does reverse the field and that relay 
> is
> easy to fry. BTW I notice I don't have to be so gentle with FWD/REV with 
> the
> E20 (found out by accident). I still do seem to recall the E12S uses an 
> E15
> motor.
> 
> Let us know how the controller works! I have another E12S in sad shape - 
> it
> would be nice to simplify the wiring and get it running.
> 
> - SteveS
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dave & Debbie Barden" <daveb seanet com>
> To: <rjkanary nauticom net>; <ssawtelle fcc net>; <>; <daveb seanet com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 2:10 AM
> Subject: Re: (ET) motor on E12S...
> 
> 
> 
>>Thanks.  It is looking more and more like the Alltrac controller will 
>>work
> 
> with
> 
>>the E12S motor.  The E12 does use field switching and my machine 
>>continues
> 
> to
> 
>>suffer welded contacts and blown fuses whenever the motor is stopped to
> 
> change
> 
>>directions and the field collapses sending a surge of current back up the
> 
> line,
> 
>>thus my concern with the field losing current.  However I understand from
> 
> Steve
> 
>>Richardson that their controller does monitor have over current
> 
> protection.  I
> 
>>am verifying also with him that the controller will switch the field for
>>forward reverse.
>>
>>thanks again for all your responses and increasing my understanding of
> 
> motors.
> 
>>dave
>>seattle
>>
>>
>>>      The field current requirements for the motors in question is for
> 
> all
> 
>>>intents and purposes identical. In all the twenty some years that I have
>>>operated either the late model  I-5 , or the earlier model eight speed
> 
> E-20,
> 
>>>I have yet to encounter a situation where field voltage was lost.
>>>     Since I do not have any information on the solid state controller
> 
> you
> 
>>>are planning on utilizing, I can't offer an opinion on whether or not it
>>>offers armature overcurrent protection.
>>>     I do feel that the chances of a loss of field incident are slight.
> 
> Few
> 
>>>people ask their tractors to do what I ask of mine. If anyone should
> 
> have a
> 
>>>meltdown, it should be me.
>>>   If your tractor uses field switching for reversing, instead of
> 
> armature
> 
>>>reversing, I would recommend changing it over. It's not that bad of a
> 
> job,
> 
>>>especially if you have the Manual, and an organ donor tractor.
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>From: "Dave & Debbie Barden" <daveb seanet com>
>>>To: <rjkanary nauticom net>; <ssawtelle fcc net>;
>>><elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 10:18 AM
>>>Subject: Re: (ET) motor on E12S...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>not being too electronically literate I need some help getting from A
> 
> to
> 
>>>C, A
>>>
>>>>being my motor has a shunt which supplies the field.  To get to C I
> 
> have
> 
>>>to be
>>>
>>>>sure that the sep-X controller will work with that kind of field.  One
> 
> of
> 
>>>>Richardson's emails talked about their needing to modify the
> 
> controller to
> 
>>>work
>>>
>>>>with small current of the E15's field windings 3 amps instead of 30 I
>>>
>>>think he
>>>
>>>>said.  Judging from the small wires going to the field of the E12S
> 
> motor
> 
>>>and
>>>
>>>>the fact that it uses a shunt I would guess that the current would be
>>>
>>>pretty
>>>
>>>>low as well???  And if steve is correct that the E12S uses an E15 like
>>>
>>>motor it
>>>
>>>>should work.  What I am really worried about is what will happen if my
>>>
>>>field
>>>
>>>>loses current (blown fuse or fried relay) will the armature still be
>>>
>>>getting
>>>
>>>>current from the controller???
>>>>
>>>>thanks,
>>>>dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>    The only wound field traction motor that does not possess the
> 
> extra
> 
>>>>>winding is the one used in the E-12 CA through HA models . This
> 
> category
> 
>>>>>includes the E-12 M.
>>>>>
>>>>>       Note that in the Homeowner's Service Manual, the E-12 S
> 
> armature
> 
>>>>>terminals are identified as A1 and S2, indicating the presence of a
>>>
>>>'shunt'
>>>
>>>>>winding.
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>From: "steves" <ssawtelle fcc net>
>>>>>To: <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 5:07 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: (ET) motor on E12S...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>As I understand it - The E12S is basically an E12 with an E15
> 
> motor.
> 
>>>The
>>>
>>>>>>wiring is different than an E12.  I would think, based on this, it
>>>
>>>would
>>>
>>>>>>work.  Someone correct if I'm wrong...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>- SteveS
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>From: "Dave & Debbie Barden" <daveb seanet com>
>>>>>>To: <plitch attglobal net>; <thumphrey mynra com>; <>
>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 8:38 AM
>>>>>>Subject: (ET) motor on E12S...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I would really like to get the new Alltrax controller for my
> 
> E12S.
> 
>>>But
>>>
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>discussions on this list have all centered around the E15 and
> 
> E20.
> 
>>>My
>>>
>>>>>>ultimte
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>question is will the alltrax work with the E12S  motor?  Also
> 
> what
> 
>>>does
>>>
>>>>>>the S
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>in E12S signify?  I thought I read that the E12S is a "compound"
>>>
>>>motor
>>>
>>>>>>>aka "shunt motor" right/wrong???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Bottom line, will the sep-X controller work on an E12S?
> 
> thoughts??
> 
>>>>>>>thanks,
>>>>>>>dave
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>Elec-trak mailing list
>>>>>>>Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
>>>>>>>https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>Elec-trak mailing list
>>>>>>Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
>>>>>>https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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End of Elec-trak Digest, Vol 2, Issue 57
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