RE: (ET) gm car

["Phil Trice" <pctrice purdue edu>]

Peter,
        You make as number of good points vis a vis the cost of
producing an EV. However, I would hesitate to say that the
infrastructure is not there. In fact, compared to, say, *hydrogen*
powered vehicles, most of the infrastructure is already in place for
refueling EVs. Think of it; we have electricity in most homes, at most
places of work, even on most street corners. The processes required to
produce, transport, and utilize elctricity are well known, in place, and
far down on the economy-of-scale.
        On the other hand, think of the work to be done in order to
bring up an equivalent infrastructure to refuel with hydrogen. Sure, the
raw materials are readily available, and renewable, but the technology
to produce, transport, store, deliver, and meter it is in its infancy.
Particularly if you consider the scale  on which gasoline is now
available. 
        I dunno. In the mid-70s, I actually thought that
alternative-energy development would take off. Even now, there's a part
of me that twitches with the optimism that it could happen again. Any
others in the audience?

        -Phil Trice
        West Lafayette, IN
        Sears Electric parts-on-the-floor project




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
[mailto:owner-elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu] On Behalf Of Pieter
Litchfield
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 7:12 AM
To: Discussion List Electrac tractor
Subject: Re: (ET) gm car


Well don't condemn GM too soon.  There isn't any infrastructure out
there, little public acceptance (except here).  I think they were leased
because GM didn't want to have owners "stranded" down the road, giving
the perception that GM was acting unethically by selling a product that
it wouldn't support.  At least with all the leased vehicles off the
road, we can't say GM unfairly abandoned us.

For the moment, it appears that hybrids are gaining acceptance.

Does anyone know of a study that attempts to quantify all the costs of
building and operating a vehicle?  Manufacturing, raw materials, fuel,
fuel transpiration,disposal, etc?  I love my ET, but I'm not convinced
when all is taken into account that it is an economic choice.  For
example, while the vehicle itself is "clean", the power plant that made
the Kws to charge it is not.  But it can be or a cost.  IInterestingly,
the pollution from the mid-west falls where I live, so my advocating for
more electric vehicles could have a real personal "cost" to me.  Anyway,
that Kw must be transported on the grid with losses, transformed
(producing heat) to charge the battery, and stored in a medium that
produces a chemical reaction resulting in a bit of gas discharge. In
addition, the batteries contain lead which has a disposal cost
encountered every few years.  And we have barely scratched the surface
of costs. So what are the "true" costs of producing and using an ET (or
any EV) compared to, say, a John Deere of comparable HP? No taking
sides, just curious.

----- Original Message -----
From: "William Korthof" <wkorthof earthlink net>
To: "Neil Dennis" <wombat dssinternet net>; "Elec-trak"
<elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: (ET) gm car


> Yeah, by hook and by crook GM is yanking away
> each of the EV1 electric cars from the "owners"
> as quickly as they legally can. It's a shame GM
> stopped EV1 production (a long time ago!). But
> it's also disappointing that they refused to allow
> anyone to buy an EV1 (lease only!) for _any_
> price from the start to the end. Many thousands
> of EV1 wannabe "wait list" EV customer were
> turned away as well, and now every single EV1
> ---1000+ or so---is being taken off the road.
>
> Boy am I glad GM is so enthusiastic about
> building technology for the future. not.
>
> /wk
>
> At 06:59 PM 3/11/03 -0500, Neil Dennis wrote:
> >An announcment in the news tonight, GM is recalling their electric 
> >car and going out of the business.
> >
> >Kinda a downer {)-{
> >
> >wombat
>