[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: (ET) Alltrax and PTO

Subject: Re: (ET) Alltrax and PTO
From: Dean Stuckmann <dstuckmann icloud com>
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2023 10:12:54 -0500
Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=icloud.com; s=1a1hai; t=1690816378; bh=1OQqKbgydZAswFU1F6QDaTQpPo9wmKs2tgvvXK558dA=; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:To:Message-Id; b=zKfJf64NMe2ui85fezD+y0pU7JnjGwT4bdTtGcq89flm1ia1rqcD1taxv253ZpASp 78ktNJ9LbAI6e3NJ4Xb8kF7/g/APmseZkT2GoJg03KVezfBflRNnJaEaHXUyzegxor XTPdrN6bSx89qsdfyijJauDn+wneVVgw2LUM9+1iT0xxYnfubcDrsK1wgXoBa/eAlZ cp/ENOLn/b75iTJs96gb4InUAHdR77aT6KVpbnrXbRocwR4oD7W1dlbLlCC+GDdEV8 Zwg1PkmZpq78qCR7GNn7azzoUOqa0bNaoGVWysQuNsESxj18wa+/lZevBWK7VRbPMk G9Ul0AnUIEzqw==
In-reply-to: <IA1PR10MB5994761D44163432D4E8FEB1C130A@IA1PR10MB5994.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>
List-archive: <http://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mhonarc/elec-trak/>
List-help: <mailto:elec-trak-request@cosmos.phy.tufts.edu?subject=help>
List-id: Electric tractor discussion list <elec-trak.cosmos.phy.tufts.edu>
List-post: <mailto:elec-trak@cosmos.phy.tufts.edu>
List-subscribe: <https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak>, <mailto:elec-trak-request@cosmos.phy.tufts.edu?subject=subscribe>
List-unsubscribe: <https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/options/elec-trak>, <mailto:elec-trak-request@cosmos.phy.tufts.edu?subject=unsubscribe>
References: <IA1PR10MB5994342FDBD53199E302827EC130A@IA1PR10MB5994.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> <781F5892-7597-4D5B-AAE4-091B1CDF01AD@icloud.com> <IA1PR10MB5994761D44163432D4E8FEB1C130A@IA1PR10MB5994.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>

Hi,
After doing more digging I’ve come up with more questions than answers. 
I’m seeing voltage to the frame along with voltage across the PTO. However 
the current is so low that it won’t even light a 1.5V flashlight bulb. 
Maybe its so trace that the meter is giving a bad reading (I can get low 
volt readings just holding the leads in my two hands) but, I have tried a 
second meter with similar results. Ames DM1000 (built by Mastech?) and an 
old Radio Shack True RMS 22-174a. Let me also state that I’m no electrical 
ace. No visible issues with the wiring. 

As I mentioned at the start, the tractor seems to run fine - with the 
exception of the power use meter readings that seem very high with lots of 
needle movement. I don't believe the readings are accurate otherwise I 
wouldn't be able to mow a 2-1/2 acre vineyard without running out of 
juice. But maybe it's tied to the volt readings that I am seeing to the 
PTO and chassis. 

Here are some readings with the negative meter cable connected to the PTO 
neg (angled connector nearest the timer).

Pos meter lead to Pos PTO 
Main disconnect off and key off - 1.3V
Main disconnect off and key on - 1.22V
Main disconnect on and key off - 1.9V
Main disconnect on and key on - 1.9V

Pos meter lead to chassis
Main disconnect off and key off - 13.8V
Main disconnect off and key on - 13.8V
Main disconnect on and key off - 22.4V 
Main disconnect on and key on - 22V

I got similar readings with all the fused pulled. One stranger thing is 
that when I removed the blue wire on the rear pack for the lift, the 22V 
chassis voltages rose to about 32V. 

So thinking (or hoping!) that the volt readings are meaningless I started 
doing some amp readings across the battery pack with the fuses back in.
.00 with main disconnect off
.02 with main disconnect on and key off
.12 with main disconnect on and key on
Don’t know if that is normal or not.

Then I purchased a Ames DC clamp meter (CM1000A) connected to the battery 
cable which goes to the main disconnect) to measure load compared to power 
use meter - the old style meter with just the single green, yellow, red 
sections
.04 with main disconnect on and key off
.10 with main disconnect on and key on. Both of these are similar to the 
one I took with my other meter above.
Transaxle in neutral, wide-open throttle - 14 amps - power use 1/3 into 
the green
Transaxle in D2, wide-open throttle on level blacktop - 27 amps - power 
use at the end of the green
Mower on, no drive - 20 amps - power use 5/8 into the green
Transaxle in D2, wide-open throttle on level blacktop with mower on - 46 
amps - power use almost in the red.
Transaxle in D1, wide-open throttle and actual mowing - 55-65 amps - power 
use at the end of the red to the needle being pinned to the right.
Again, I don’t know if these amp loads are normal or not but can mow a lot 
of grass on a single charge.

It's "working” for now so I’ll probably hold off till winter to dissect 
the wiring.

Thanks for any input you may have. 

Take care,
Dean

> On Jul 10, 2023, at 10:43 AM, John Jeno <jjjeno hotmail com> wrote:
> 
> Please let us know findings.
> I suspect we will all see similarly odd happenings someday.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 9, 2023, at 6:36 PM, Dean Stuckmann <dstuckmann icloud com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for your help
>> Looks like I have to chase some wiring…
>> 
>> Take care,
>> Dean
>> 
>>> On Jul 9, 2023, at 8:12 PM, John Jeno <jjjeno hotmail com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Main disconnect off.
>>> Key off.
>>> PTO off.
>>> V = 0.024. Stray ambient?
>>> 
>>> Main on.
>>> V = 0.024
>>> 
>>> Key on. Contractor clicks.
>>> V = 0.025
>>> 
>>> PTO on.
>>> V = 40.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>>> On Jul 9, 2023, at 4:58 PM, Dean Stuckmann <dstuckmann icloud com> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I did not engage any throttle on the Alltrax. The PTO switch on/off 
>>>> also engaged and disengaged the Alltrax main solenoid.
>>>> 
>>>> What voltage were you seeing at the PTO when the key switch is off?
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you all
>>>> 
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Dean
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jul 9, 2023, at 5:29 PM, John Jeno <jjjeno hotmail com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> When you say “cycle” of the Alltrax, do you mean from on to off to 
>>>>> on again?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I haven’t opened up the panel to check but I do know there’s no 
>>>>> hiccup in drive when I cycle the PTO switch.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jul 9, 2023, at 3:25 PM, John Jeno <jjjeno hotmail com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> One answer.
>>>>>> Voltage drops to a few mv with the first auto range flash of the 
>>>>>> Fluke when the PTO switch is opened.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jul 9, 2023, at 12:46 PM, Dean Stuckmann via Elec-trak 
>>>>>>>> <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> I’m hoping that one of you Alltrax guys can do a quick voltage 
>>>>>>> check for me. Let me give you a little background.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I converted my E16 to Alltrax in 2016. The tractor’s drive has 
>>>>>>> always run perfect and still does. Yesterday I was finishing the 
>>>>>>> mowing a 2 acre vineyard and turned off the mower while 
>>>>>>> repositioning the tractor but it failed to turn back on. I cycled 
>>>>>>> the PTO switch a few times and then the mower started. I mowed for 
>>>>>>> about five minutes more and turned off the deck. This time when I 
>>>>>>> try to start it, it would not go at all. I noticed that the PTO 
>>>>>>> solenoid was very warm. I could touch it, but barely. Another 
>>>>>>> thing I noticed is that the main contractor for the Alltrax would 
>>>>>>> cycle when turning the PTO switch on and off (key was ON). Is that 
>>>>>>> normal? I never noticed it before but the tractor is typically 
>>>>>>> already moving when powering on attachments. I just assumed that I 
>>>>>>> was hearing the PTO solenoid.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The PTO would restart after a cool down. I assumed that the 
>>>>>>> solenoid was getting bad so I replaced with a spare that I had. It 
>>>>>>> was was a used unit that was about 3/8” shorter than the original 
>>>>>>> but looked almost like new. I checked it with an ohmmeter to make 
>>>>>>> sure that the unit was cycling correctly and that there were no 
>>>>>>> shorts to the case. It all checked out so I installed it in the 
>>>>>>> tractor.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Then I did some voltage checks to test it all out before 
>>>>>>> connecting the mower back up and noticed something odd. With the 
>>>>>>> PTO off (and even the key in the Off position) there is between 
>>>>>>> 5-9V between the 2 angled ports on the PTO socket. Voltage is 
>>>>>>> similar with the key on. Even with the main disconnect open, there 
>>>>>>> is about 5V that diminishes to zero in a minute or so. My stock 
>>>>>>> I-5 reads zero in these tests, as I assume that it should.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I know that the Alltrax has some caps in it and I’m wondering if 
>>>>>>> this voltage “leak” is coming from that. There is no voltage shown 
>>>>>>> when the mower is plugged in. Maybe its the norm? I don’t recall 
>>>>>>> doing a similar test when I originally installed the Alltrax so I 
>>>>>>> can’t comment on that.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm hoping I can get some answers before I start tearing into all 
>>>>>>> the wiring. If one of you Alltrax guys could get back to me 
>>>>>>> regarding the following questions, it would be appreciated.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Key off, attachments disconnected. Do you see voltage across the 2 
>>>>>>> angled ports in the socket?
>>>>>>> Do you see diminishing voltage when the main disconnect is opened?
>>>>>>> Key on, attachments disconnected. Can you feel the Alltrax main 
>>>>>>> contractor cycle when turning the PTO on and off?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thank you all in advance.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dean Stuckmann
>>>>>>> 5432 County Road U
>>>>>>> Newton, WI 53063-9624
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 920-901-2288
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>>>>> URL: 
>>>>>>> <http://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mhonarc/elec-trak/attachments/20230709/b78621f0/attachment.htm>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Elec-trak mailing list
>>>>>>> Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
>>>>>>> https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Elec-trak mailing list
>>>>>> Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
>>>>>> https://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
<http://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mhonarc/elec-trak/attachments/20230731/192bb6bd/attachment.htm>

Prev by Date: (ET) Elec-Trak for sale in Poughkeepsie NY
Next by Date: (ET) Time for a better charger....
Previous by thread: Re: (ET) Alltrax and PTO
Next by thread: (ET) AP60
Index(es):
- Date
- Thread