After decades in the automotive repair field one observation always rings true. It's all GOOD, until it BREAKS. :)
RJ
Luddite.
On 6/14/2014 10:00 AM, Robert wrote:
I'd have to see the failure rate statistics of modern controllers, I doubt well designed controllers have a significant failure rate. The simple fact is that mechanical devices can't hold up to solid state electronics. Mechanical failures still involve parts cost and waiting for replacement parts too. Also don't dismiss efficiency, that's run time and battery life and those batteries being charged by microcontroller circuits last longer and charge optimally as opposed to a mechanical timer that overcharges batteries with no current or voltage limit. The microcontrollers I use today have an MTBF of 100 years, by the way.
You drive a car everyday full of electronics, what fails? Mechanical parts, nine out of ten times. I used to work on fuel injection systems (Bosch L and K jetronic). K had a distribution pump that failed often, cost a bundle and couldn't compete with the efficiency of the L system run by an on board computer. In all the years I worked on those systems I never saw a computer failure, not once. Mechanical failures of injectors and distribution pumps, that was another story. Variations of the L system are still in use, the K is gone forever. Same thing with VCR's, CD players, etc. When switch mode power supplies first started to come out in electronics in the mid 90's there were a lot of failures, there were circuit issues not being addressed, things like shoot through and spikes. Once we got that in control those things disappeared, the same type of circuits are in motor controllers too, I'm not seeing any significant failures today in SMPS or motor controllers.
Rob
-----Original Message----- From: RJ Kanary
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2014 8:44 AM
To: Robert ; et
Subject: Re: (ET) Controllers
What about the cost of replacing the potted wonder when it
fails? Waiting for a replacement to arrive, plus the hole burned in your
wallet AGAIN just does not appeal to someone that spent nearly four
decades of actually repairing components and returning devices large and
small back to service.
Increased efficiency does not mean very much when the
device is inoperative. :) Especially when repairing the device in the
field was not a consideration.
RJ
Luddite.
On 6/14/2014 6:44 AM, Robert wrote:
Electronics today surpasses the original ET setup by a very large margin. It's more than how long will it last (MTBF -mean time before failure), efficiencies of PWM controllers along with MOSFET and IGBT advances in just the last few years have changed the way we control AC and DC voltages and currents. Even a PWM controller sold in 2003, and probably designed a couple of years before that, simply can't compete with the new stuff coming out. Motor control today is on a whole different level. Anytime you replace a relay (mechanical device) with a solid state device you decrease it's MTBF. Why do you think VCR's went the way of the mechanical typewriter? It's because they are mechanical devices and if any of you have ever worked on a VCR you know that belts and heads wear out long before any electronic failure, in fact even the CD has been replaced with MP3 to remove the mechanics. Hard drives in your computer? Solid state is replacing that too, it's much easier, and cheaper, to make a silicon device than to machine a housing, build motors, bearings, etc. not to mention labor costs.
Rob
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 17:54:14 -0400
From: Charlie <medievalist gmail com>
Cc: et <Elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
Subject: Re: (ET) 4QD Pro 120 controller
Message-ID:
<CAJb3uA6GtXORq4F6gBVjr7RTLKykhfHxRCHMGHi9ZQN1JgxAfw mail gmail com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hey, you don't have to be a luddite to appreciate the later Elec-trak
electronics! The late model E-20, I-5, and Wheel Horses have a simple,
elegant and durable design.
Now, if you'd rather have the early E-15 wiring than a modern controller,
that's another story entirely... I don't think any of those early
transistor cards lasted much past 10 years, did they?
--Charlie
aka General Llud
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 10:08 AM, RJ Kanary <rjkanary consolidated net>
wrote:
AH HAA! A fellow Luddite. :)-------------- next part --------------
RJ
On 6/13/2014 9:57 AM, oasis654 aol com wrote:
interesting that some of the original equipment has lasted 50 or so years.
would have to have changed the controller 5 times if they only lasted 10
years. just wondering, jon k albany ny
-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy Gulden <rimmer59 hbci com> <rimmer59 hbci com>
To: elec-trak <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
<elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
Sent: Thu, Jun 12, 2014 9:45 pm
Subject: (ET) 4QD Pro 120 controller
Update on my E20 with 4QD Pro 120 controller. I installed the original
controller in August 2003. It now went defective and was replaced a
couple weeks ago with a new one. Was able to get 10 years out of the
first controller. Not sure how this stacks up to other electronic PWM
controllers.
Tim Gulden
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 18:12:15 -0400
From: Jeff Antonucci <jlantonucci comcast net>
To: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
Subject: Re: (ET) 4QD Pro 120 controller
Message-ID: <539B773F 7060109 comcast net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
Don't forget the New Idea machines. They have the simplified
electronics too.
On 6/13/2014 5:54 PM, Charlie wrote:
Hey, you don't have to be a luddite to appreciate the later Elec-trak
electronics! The late model E-20, I-5, and Wheel Horses have a
simple, elegant and durable design.
Now, if you'd rather have the early E-15 wiring than a modern
controller, that's another story entirely... I don't think any of
those early transistor cards lasted much past 10 years, did they?
--Charlie
aka General Llud
On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 10:08 AM, RJ Kanary <rjkanary consolidated net
<mailto:rjkanary consolidated net>> wrote:
AH HAA! A fellow Luddite. :)
RJ
On 6/13/2014 9:57 AM, oasis654 aol com <mailto:oasis654 aol com>
wrote:
interesting that some of the original equipment has lasted 50 or
so years. would have to have changed the controller 5 times if
they only lasted 10 years. just wondering, jon k albany ny
-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy Gulden <rimmer59 hbci com> <mailto:rimmer59 hbci com>
To: elec-trak <elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
<mailto:elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu>
Sent: Thu, Jun 12, 2014 9:45 pm
Subject: (ET) 4QD Pro 120 controller
Update on my E20 with 4QD Pro 120 controller. I installed the original
controller in August 2003. It now went defective and was replaced a
couple weeks ago with a new one. Was able to get 10 years out of the
first controller. Not sure how this stacks up to other electronic PWM
controllers.
Tim Gulden
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 19:05:52 -0400
From: CZ Unit <cz alembic crystel com>
To: elec-trak cosmos phy tufts edu
Subject: Re: (ET) 4QD Pro 120 controller
Message-ID: <539B83D0 5060601 alembic crystel com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 6/13/2014 5:54 PM, Charlie wrote:
Hey, you don't have to be a luddite to appreciate the later Elec-trak
electronics! The late model E-20, I-5, and Wheel Horses have a simple,
elegant and durable design.
Now, if you'd rather have the early E-15 wiring than a modern
controller, that's another story entirely... I don't think any of
those early transistor cards lasted much past 10 years, did they?
Actually the E15 card is not the problem; the SCRs are fine and the
capacitors seem to work as well. The only problem I have had with
electronics is the field diodes on the E20's, those are an easy
replacement on the board.
The problem is the E15's moronic use of a relay to switch the field, and
the edge connectors. Aside from that they will run probably forever.
C
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End of Elec-trak Digest, Vol 12, Issue 76
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