RE: (ET) Re: new electrics

[Jeremy Gagliardi com]

Quite insightful.  It's what I've felt about the state of the market, but 
didn't
know how to put into words myself.

If I could use your missive as a jumping point...

I think the only way to truly break into the market, is to offer a small 
riding
mower at a *cheaper* price than the ICE tractors average buyers find at 
Home
Depot, Sears, etc., but with all or more features  It's the only way to 
break
in, without your product being relegated to the novelty isle of the 
department
store.

I see Hybrid cars have made a noteable entry into the marketplace, but not
without trouble.  So far, I don't think the manufacturers have made an 
ounce of
profit from selling hybrids, BUT it looks like the trend is going upward 
for
them, because many new models of cars and light trucks/SUVs are coming out 
in
hybrid versions in the next 1-3 years.  That success is due in *large* 
part to
government-mandated high fuel efficiency standards.

To my knowledge, tractors and small motor equipment aren't regulated by
efficiency standards.  If the government imposed the same standards on 
garden
tractors as they do on cars, I'm sure you'd start seeing a LOT more 
electrics
and even hybrids on the market.

But, what can sell an electric tractor without efficiency laws in place?  A
cheaper sticker price.  Is it possible?  I know batteries alone can add a 
couple
hundred dollars to the sticker price.  I think simplicity is also key.  If 
you
can make your tractor a lot simpler than an ICE tractor, then you've found 
a
good group of buyers.

There are a lot of people in this world that look elsewhere for help, 
because
they feel they don't have enough time to do it themselves.  If you can 
make a
tractor really simple to operate, you've won.

I for one want my ET to recharge itself just by me plugging in the cable.  
I
don't want switches, buttons, meters, states of charge, specific gravity, 
cell
voltage vs. pack voltage, timing mechanisms, or temperature forcasts to 
get in
the way of that.  That's why I bought and happily installed the Landis
controller (separate debate).  Additionally, I want the interface to drive 
it
and operate to be simple.  I just want the simple little charge meter and 
power
use meter that GE in their wisdom made standard, not a computer with 
thousands
of options and dozens of buttons.  I want the maintenance to be simple. 
Largely, for the ET it is, although the age of these beasts does creap in 
every
now and then.  But, there is the issue of external help.  For our ETs, we 
must
service them ourselves.  If a new ET hits the market, support must be 
there for
the casual user that never wants to open the hood.  They must be 
serviceable,
and if there is no shop available, it must be simple for the owner to do.  
If a
part breaks, it should be easy to remove it and replace it with a new one. 
 An
owner should never have to get out a solder gun or any tool specifically 
made
for wiring.  It should just be a simple plug&play device.  If it's a 
relay, have
the relay in a socket (like in most cars).  Just pull the failed relay, 
and pop
in a new one.

Damn.  I could write too much on this subject.  So, buy now...

--
Jeremy Gagliardi
Bethesda, Md
E20

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:05:26 -0500, "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" wrote:
> On 19 Feb 2004 at 14:42, Chapin, Tim wrote:
> 
> > I think the focus should be for the small yard person.
> 
> All of this sounds terribly familiar.  It's the talk I've heard 
> countless times
> from 
> people who are sure they can build road EVs and sell them by the 
> thousands 
> to an eager market.  They soon discover that the reason an electric 
> vehicle is 
> such a hard sell to individuals is that EVs solve a ^social^ problem, 
> not a 
> ^personal^ one.  
> 
> People in general don't really much care that EVs are cleaner or quieter 
> or 
> better for the environment.  They don't perceive any tangible immediate 
> personal benefit from that.  They cost more (mostly because of limited 
> volume production), work just a little differently (or a lot 
> differently),
can't
> go 
> as far on a "tankful," have unfamiliar maintenance needs, and so on.  
> Gas 
> vehicles actually work amazingly well already, and the automakers have 
> convinced us that they're already squeaky-clean.  The average guy has to 
> ask, "So, what problem exactly is it that EVs are solving?"
> 
> The exact same issue applies to garden tractors.  What problem exactly 
> is it 
> that you're solving with an electric tractor?
> 
> Quiet mowing, lack of fumes, easy starting, and no need for gasoline 
> have 
> been the argument for electric push mowers for years.  Yet they still 
> have 
> only a tiny sliver of the push mower market, and there's a constant 
> turnover
in 
> manufacturers because it's so difficult to aggregate enough sales for 
> more 
> than one or two of them to even stay in the electric mower business.  
> The 
> fact is that, to the average consumer, quiet and lack of gas and fumes 
> just 
> aren't of much interest.  And gas mowers aren't even that hard to start 
> any 
> more.  You also have to fight the image of electric mowers and weed 
> cutters 
> as feeble (which they usually are).
> 
> And there's the arena in which you propose to compete - the low end.  
> That's 
> the toughest segment of the market, and it's the same mistake that the 
> road 
> EV makers have made countless times.  How can a tiny $20,000 or $30,000 
> electric runabout compete with a little $10,000 gas runabout?  Exactly 
> what 
> about that electric is worth 2 to 3 times as much to the average person? 
>  
> Similarly, commodity mass-production gas tractors will be very, very 
> difficult 
> to compete with on price - which is almost the only factor the average 
> low-
> end US buyer considers today. 
> 
> You can't just build an electric tractor and expect people to buy it 
> just 
> because it's good and clean and quiet.  As the many failed road EV 
> makers 
> will tell you,  that doesn't work.  
> 
> First, you need to find an unmet need related to outdoor care.  It might 
> have 
> to do with to sheltering the user from liability or complying with new 
> regulations.  For institutions, that can overcome price objections in a 
> trice.
 
> Or, it might be a completely new solution to residential lawn care that 
> frees 
> up a relatively wealthy homeowner to spend much less time on it (an 
> example of and attempt at such an innovation might be the robot 
> lawnmowers).  
> 
> Then you have to develop a product to meet that need.  Ideally (for us) 
> it 
> would be one where electricity is the only logical and practical fuel to 
> use
for 
> the product.  
> 
> You have to be open-minded and prepared for the possibility that it 
> might not 
> be a general purpose tractor.  It might not even cut grass!  But if 
> you've
done 
> your homework correctly, you WILL have a market and you WILL make 
> money with it.  
> 
> At least you will until one of the major companies decides they want a 
> piece 
> of your market and takes your customers away with something they build 
> in 
> a Chinese or Mexican sweatshop for half the price.  But that's another 
> story 
> entirely  ...
> 
> I don't want to be the wet blanket here, or to discourage anybody.  I 
> admire 
> folks who try to make a business of EVs (and ETs).  But you are 
> competing 
> in a very mature industry.  It takes a carefully targeted product to 
> succeed
in 
> such a market.  I could be wrong, in fact I hope I am, but I don't think 
> a
small 
> tractor for the average homeowner is that product.
> 
> 
> 
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