<div dir="ltr"><div>I've seen something similar to this on my E20. The thing pretty much seemed to have a mind of it's own, with relays doing stuff late, or at the wrong time. It turned out that the electronic card had leaky diodes. This is not something that shows up in a normal diode check. If I remember correctly, all the diodes but one tested correctly with the diode setting on a digital meter. But one of them was pretty strange, with some voltage in both directions. Not the same voltage, so it we still acting like a diode, but not a very good diode. This led me to check all the diode, and many of them had a lot of leakage in reverse. Not enough to show up in the standard diode test, but enough to really mess things up. I replaced all the bad diodes and all my troubles were cured. <br><br></div>Robbie<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 10:08 PM, tb <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tbamc@gbta.net" target="_blank">tbamc@gbta.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">I've no idea--mine's an E12--but I'm sure someone will know!<div><br></div><div>Thon<div><div class="h5"><br><div><div>On May 21, 2017, at 8:37 PM, Briggs, Michael wrote:</div><br class="m_-1700619585362043368Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="m_-1700619585362043368Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Didot;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><span class="m_-1700619585362043368Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br class="m_-1700619585362043368Apple-interchange-newline">Thon,<br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"> This is the first I've heard of the centrifugal switch. After some quick googling it does seem like it could be involved. I only found mentions of a centrifugal switch on the E12; does the E15 have one?<br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"> It's on the back of the drive motor?<br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">Thanks!<br>Mike<br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br></div><div style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><br></div><div id="m_-1700619585362043368Signature"><div name="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px"><div><hr></div><div>Michael S. Briggs, PhD</div><div>UNH Physics Department</div><div><a href="tel:(603)%20862-2828" value="+16038622828" target="_blank">(603) 862-2828</a></div><div><hr></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><hr style="display:inline-block;width:933px"><div id="m_-1700619585362043368divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b><span class="m_-1700619585362043368Apple-converted-space"> </span>tb <<a href="mailto:tbamc@gbta.net" target="_blank">tbamc@gbta.net</a>><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="m_-1700619585362043368Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, May 21, 2017 8:16 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="m_-1700619585362043368Apple-converted-space"> </span>Briggs, Michael<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="m_-1700619585362043368Apple-converted-space"> </span>et<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="m_-1700619585362043368Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: (ET) E-15 not getting out of first speed</font><div> </div></div><div>When I've had similar problems it's been the centrifugal switch<span class="m_-1700619585362043368Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>connector<span class="m_-1700619585362043368Apple-converted-space"> </span></b> behind the drive motor. Plugging/unplugging several times restores function. May not be your problem but really easy to check.<div><br></div><div>Thon</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On May 20, 2017, at 9:25 PM, Briggs, Michael wrote:</div><br class="m_-1700619585362043368Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><br>Update on this. I charged the batteries for a nice long time, last doing some charging yesterday. This afternoon I took it out to mow - and right away couldn't get out of first speed. I thought to myself "WTF self? The batteries are fully charged - I thought this was a low voltage issue". I measured the pack voltage while the mower deck was on (temporarily bypassed the seat safety switch) and it was around 35.6 Volts, if I remember correctly. That seemed fine considering the three motors do draw a lot of current. I also measured the voltage at the control fuse to see if there might be any substantial voltage drop across any unexpected resistance before that point, and got the same voltage reading.<span class="m_-1700619585362043368Apple-converted-space"> </span><br> So I decided to keep mowing, chugging along super slow, for about 20-30 minutes. Then, all of a sudden, it went up into higher speeds. Woohoo! But WTF? I kept mowing for probably 70-90 more minutes, zipping around with the tractor working perfectly.<br> This behavior seems like more of a loose connection kind of thing to me. If it was a problem due to low voltage (from bad batteries or unexpected voltage drop somewhere in the circuit), I wouldn't expect that to just all of a sudden disappear. Of course, it could be a loose connection causing an unexpected voltage drop....<br> Any thoughts on where a loose connection might be that would cause this behavior? For the first 20-30 minutes, when it wouldn't get out of first speed while in gear, it would still get out of first speed while in neutral, spinning the motor up nice and fast. I've checked the connections at the solenoids and the main power disconnect switch. The connections are solid, although at the disconnect there are some burn marks at the fusible link - but yesterday I had the vague recollection of accidentally shorting a wire there a few years ago, causing an arc that may have caused those burn marks. At least I think I remember that.... two little kids and lack of sleep is making my memory fuzzy).<span class="m_-1700619585362043368Apple-converted-space"> </span><br> The good news is the batteries seem to be fine - I had no trouble mowing the entire yard (and the portion I was mowing initially was very long since I didn't mow it last week, since the slow-motion effect kicked in after mowing for an hour or so).<span class="m_-1700619585362043368Apple-converted-space"> </span><br> Thoughts? <br><br>Thanks,<br>Mike<br><br>______________________________<wbr>__<br>Michael S. Briggs, PhD<br>UNH Physics Department<br><a href="tel:(603)%20862-2828" value="+16038622828" target="_blank">(603) 862-2828</a><br>______________________________<wbr>__<br><br>______________________________<wbr>__________<br>From: john j casey <<a href="mailto:jjcrmc@verizon.net" target="_blank">jjcrmc@verizon.net</a>><br>Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 11:52 AM<br>To:<span class="m_-1700619585362043368Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:noaddress@drmm.net" target="_blank">noaddress@drmm.net</a><br>Cc:<span class="m_-1700619585362043368Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:elec-trak@cosmos.phy.tufts.edu" target="_blank">elec-trak@cosmos.phy.<wbr>tufts.edu</a><br>Subject: Re: (ET) E-15 not getting out of first speed<br><br>Would a specific gravity test be in order?<br>Cheers, jack<br><br>On May 17, 2017, at 1:03 AM, David Roden wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">On 17 May 2017 at 0:35, Briggs, Michael wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I'm wondering if I'm just not charging long enough. I'm using a Landis<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">charge controller.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I would definitely try bypassing it. That said, if it's been undercharging<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the battery for some months or years, the damage to the battery (hard or<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">permanent sulfation) is probably long since done.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">A sulfated battery will have a lower on-charge maximum voltage, lower<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">operating voltage, and reduced capacity. These phenomena aren't reversible<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">in any meaningful way; the damage is permanent.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I already suggested measuring your batteries' voltage under load (while<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">driving the tractor and perhaps mowing). I don't see any other way you can<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">determine whether they can maintain enough voltage to run the tractor<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">properly without connecting a voltmeter to them and reading it under load.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Sorry, but "they can hold a charge well enough to mow for a while" doesn't<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">really tell us anything of value here.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">As for measuring their capacity, the easiest and cheapest (if approximate)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">way I've found requires a 12v inverter, preferably with a capacity of at<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">least 1000 Watts; an AC powered analog clock with hands (check garage sales<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">and thrift stores); and a 120v load of some kind.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The ideal load will put a 75 amp load on the battery, because then you can<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">compare the battery's actual measured capacity to its factory reserve<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">capacity specification. For a golf car battery, reserve capacity is<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">normally stated in minutes of operation at a constant 75 amps until the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">battery falls to 5.25v under load.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Most cheap inverters are around 70-85% efficient when running at around 2/3<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">load. Let's take 80% as a reasonable approximation. If you have a really<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">good inverter with higher efficiency, just plug that value into the math<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that follows.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">This is not lab equipment and the actual current and voltage will vary over<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the test, but remember, I said this is an approximation! At an average of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">12v, an average 75 amp avg load will be an average 900 watts from the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">battery. Allow for 80% efficiency and you get 0.8 * 900 == 720 watts of AC<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">load to put on the inverter output. This can be approximated pretty well<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">with three 250 Watt incandescent light bulbs.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">If all you have at hand is a small (< 1000W) inverter, you can still do this<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">measurement, but then you have to convert to amp-hours and adjust for<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Peukert capacity. It's just a little more time and a little more math.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Connect the inverter to a pair of charged 6v batteries in series. Set the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">clock to 12:00:00 and plug it into the inverter, along with the lights. Let<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">'er rip.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">When the batteries are effectively flat (around 10.5 volts under load), your<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">inverter should automatically shut down. You may have to keep an eye on it,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">though, because some inverters will start up again when the battery voltage<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">rises after a rest, throwing off the test.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">When the lights go off and the clock stops, read the hours and minutes of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">reserve capacity from the clock. Assuming you used 750W of lights, convert<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to minutes and compare to the batteries' factory specification. Typical<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">golf car batteries' RCs are 105 to 125 minutes. A battery is considered<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">spent when its capacity is below 80% of specification.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Note: mail sent to the "etpost" address will not reach me. 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